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Go-Home-and-Prac
tice
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Hi! I was wondering if anyone knew about the durability of the body on the series of Haynes classic flutes. (Q series)
I will major in music education next year in college, and I was wondering if these flutes would stand up to 4 years of heavy use.
Any opinions would be greatly appreciated!
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vampav8trix
(295 points)
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Good question.
I don't think that they are even 4 years old. I guess someone will find out.
Good luck.
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Patrick
(1515 points)
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get a good vintage Haynes with a good headjoint, you will prob get more for your money
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Bilbo
(968 points)
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It's my contention that no flute will stand up to 4 years of "heavy use".
If you buy a flute that has plated keys, it's the plating that may wear off in about 4 years of practice of about 4-6 hours a day depending on how you finger the notes. The question is, how much do you want to spend on the flute that you may be trying to wear out in 4 years. If it were me, I'd not be buying a top pro instrument for college work. Get something middle-range and then when you hit the big time and you are more affluent, go and buy that fancy flute. In the meantime, there's a lot to be said about actually getting to know a lot of different flutes well.-and I mean not just trying them all out at the flute fairs.
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Alieannie
(837 points)
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Bilbo is right to a point, but you need to get a flute that won't hold you back. An American band flute's "professional" model probably isn't going to cut it (Like Gemeinhardt, Emerson, etc.) I sometimes see flute majors trying to truck along on a Gemeinhardt 33SB with the stock head joint and they wonder why they aren't getting it done (Play in tune, play with real dynamics, good phrasing and diminuendos, etc.)
If you are really really on a budget, you can made do with a used Yamaha student flute and get a nice head joint for it. Or get a used Muramatsu EX. That way you're getting a flute that will last through the 4 years and not break the bank. There are other suitable models as well, but you have to be choosy. Are you flute performance or music ed? Where are you going to school?
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Bilbo
(968 points)
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interesting Alieanne,
I actually wore out the mechanism and wore the plating off a 3SB in my undergrad years and could actually pass the juries with that club of an instrument in those days. ~not that I'd recommend it today. The teachers are more picky about what the students play, the choices are a bit more vast and there have been some decent improvements in design of intermediate flutes.
That being said, the Yamaha or the Muramatsu recommendation (Even used ones of good condition) I think, are good for quality and durability. So Patrick's suggestion is good because one needs to keep the perspective that the Univ. experience is a learning one and that one may actually learn something more about tone from the Haynes than from an easier playing instrument. ( I speak from 26 years with a Haynes and 15 or so with a few Yamahas.)
<Added>
But as a final comment, what the student doesn't want to do is to fall into the trap of "is my flute good enough?" (The upgrade blues) because there is a big issue with players these days in that no matter what flute you own, it's not going to be the best flute in some other person's opinion. I have seen them all criticized thanks to the internet. ~and I do mean "all" of them. This includes the all of the Boston makers, all of the U.S. brands, all of the Japanese names.....
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Alieannie
(837 points)
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That's pretty funny Bilbo. You got your money's worth outta that gemmie! But honestly, referring to my comment, I think it has more to do with the headjoint than the mechanism.
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Bilbo
(968 points)
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Ah, but my concern with certain instruments is primarily with the mechanism and having my younger students acquire a good working flute...that lasts.
I have yet to play any well adjusted Boehm flute where I had a really big issue with things such as you mentioned: "Play in tune, play with real dynamics, good phrasing and diminuendos, etc." as a result of the embouchure cut.
So, I'd say that doing a decent diminuendo isn't the fault of the flute's head joint so much as the flutist's understanding of the mechanical aspects of their embouchure relative to that particular head joint. As a matter of fact some instruments which we may consider to be "modern" in tonal concept may actually be a hindrance to learning because they are too easy to play loud where the student needs to work on their tone in their soft playing. Some of these new things are really good at a bright and loud sound but control of the tonal range isn't so easily understood with them. In this respect, I would not lump any of the Gemeinhardts that I know of.
I did have issue with my old, beat up gemmie in that it basically needed a screwdriver daily and an overhaul every few months. As a result, getting the low notes was a tad over-challenging and gave me fits at times. I did have the privilege of playing one of the top of the line Gemeinhardts about two decades ago and I thought that it was really a decent instrument in tone and action but that most people would not choose to use it because of the companies reputation as that of a student-line brand and the fact that for that price, most better players would rather play something more prestigious.
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Bilbo
(968 points)
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As another point Alieanne,
Since I'm concerned about having a reliable flute, I hae been seeing more issues with the Yamahas lately. I'm finding that their adjusting screws aren't staying in adjustment nearly as good as they used to.
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Alieannie
(837 points)
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Oh no, I agree with you 100% that the player is the number one factor when it comes to "getting it done". But I do think that at times an instrument can be a small contributing factor and make things more difficult. It may not be the case for you, as it sounds like you have been playing for awhile (decades?) and have a degree, but it might be more of a factor for someone who's an incoming freshman and only playing for 5 years or something. Why a player may be struggling can be a vast combination of things, which does include the instrument played on, but ultimately it comes down to the player. It just might raise curiosity if a player is struggling a little, would they do better on another instrument?
The only fault I personally find with gemeinhardt headjoints is that I can't get real volume out of them. I can play pp to maybe a good mf, but I can't get a good, stong forte out of them. Most other headjoints are no problem. So is it me or the headjoint?
Have you seen this adjusting screw problem on just recent brand new yamahas? Any particular batch of serial numbers? I only see older ones, so I have no idea. It's good to know.
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Go-Home-and-Prac
tice
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Thanks to everyone for their replies! I really appreciate your taking time to post.
I have tried a Yamaha on trial and liked it, but the EC headjoint just didn't suit me as well as I had hoped. So I am going to try a Haynes Q2 on trial, since I have tried a few Haynes headjoints and loved them. (I'm not limiting myself to those two options)
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Bilbo
(968 points)
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"The only fault I personally find with gemeinhardt headjoints is that I can't get real volume out of them. I can play pp to maybe a good mf, but I can't get a good, stong forte out of them. Most other headjoints are no problem. So is it me or the headjoint?"
I think that it's a bit of both. I do agree with what you've said BTW. The difference for me is that I perceive the Gemeinhardt as basically an older design. Maybe more after the old French flutes. The Yamaha has more of the bigger Powell concept. Emb. hole shape, undercut as well as the diameter of the tube(including the taper) can have a big amount of impact. At that point, one needs to work on this illusive "projection" concept for their sound rather than simply forcing the volume.
Have you seen this adjusting screw problem on just recent brand new yamahas? Any particular batch of serial numbers? I only see older ones, so I have no idea. It's good to know."
I can't say that I have followed the batch numbers but I first noticed this problem about 1.5 to 2 years ago on newer flutes. It was primarily the small adjusting balance screws. I seem to think that there's one from the A or G to the Bb (Between LH1 and 2) on one that is accessed back by the LThumb area. Of course this is easily fixed if the person doing the fix is aware of the problem. Same issue for the Gemmies but this is more in the LH main screw that goes through the C key or the trill end post screws or the RH endpost......These can lead to that weaker tone that one feels that Gemeinhards seem to have.
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Kara
(3013 points)
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| I'm finding that their adjusting screws aren't staying in adjustment nearly as good as they used to. |
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Bilbo, a small dab of clear nail polish on the top of the screw will help with this problem.
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Alieannie
(837 points)
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"The difference for me is that I perceive the Gemeinhardt as basically an older design. Maybe more after the old French flutes."
Hmmm, I NEVER thought of it like that. Good food for thought. But Haynes, then Powell, etc. were modeled after old Louis Lot's. So you simply think Gemeinhardt ran with the "old" design, and didn't "upgrade" or modernize their sound like Haynes, Powell, Yamaha, etc.? I've played old Haynes flutes from the 60's and whatnot, but never anything REALLY old, so this is an interesting concept for me.
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Bilbo
(968 points)
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Actually Alieannie, I wold lump the Haynes with the older French Flutes. I've always felt that the bore diameter is small on the older Haynes. At least my thinwall from '82 has a relatively small diameter receiver. and I can say that Patrick D's beautiful 1952 Haynes is even a slight tad smaller than mine. Of course the key diameters affect things as well and I have no info. on that.
So, I've always felt that the Powells had a larger sound. This does not equate to me with attractive but some feel the need for this tone when doing solos and recitals.
I hope that the person with the Haynes Q2 on trial comes back here and gives us a report on quality, playability and tone. I'm curious about these newer Haynes flute lines. I wish them good luck with it.
Kara, I now know that I should begin keeping a bottle of clear nail polish in my bag. It will save my students some down time with the repair techs.
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