And what else matters is a social climate which stigmatises flute playing for boys.

It`s sick. Such negative forces are not the sign of a developed, `free` society, where people have freedom of choice. There is not freedom of choice if social pressures work hard against young boys learning flute. It seems that in our modern societies we just substitute older forms of meanness towards others, with more sophisticated ones.

What is weird is that this stigmatisation of boy flute players has been perpetuated in at least two countries, including my own, for decades.

I wonder if it is universal, or whether there are actually countries which ARE more developed.

Just thinking out loud.

Me thinks that this whole thread is a waste of any space in this group.

Not necessarily a waste of time for others though Kara. If so for you, then move on to other threads.

I think that Arak has something.
It seems to me that in my area, there is less of a tendancy to understand and want to tolerate diverse thinking in recent years. It probably goes hand-in-hand with a growing upsurge in "conservative" thinking and closed minds. I have had this question posed in different ways far more often than in the past when I was in public school. I was only razzed 1 time in 9 years about being a boy flutist and that boy subsequently experienced great fear. There were three male flutists in my HS band when I was a senior. Now more people can`t seem to understand why I would want to play the flute as if I were trying to be feminine or something. (not the case at all) I can`t understand it when musicians ask the question because part of being a good musician is to be understanding of others and have an open mind. Now if I were a bad player, I could understand someone asking why I do music but even that is a stupid question. ....Same reason why I play flute. The answer: It pleases me. I truly despise questions which are intended to attempt to control my way of thinking. An example of that type of question might be: "Why is your hair so long?" Which really means, "Cut your hair now stupid!" These control methods only bring out the stubborness streak in me.

Now, I feel that it would be more interesting to find out why any female flutist or otherwise woud ask the question, "Why would any guy play the flute"?

Occasionally, I have a parent of a potential student say that they would prefer a female flute teacher. I automatically think the parent is closed minded and that they ahve taught their child in like manner. At any rate, that is their loss since I have considerable training and education. Far more than their usual other choice for a female teacher in the area.

~Bilbo

I wonder if it is universal, or whether there are actually countries which ARE more developed.

I`m not saying we`re more devoloped, but in Britain, France and Spain for instance there`s nothing wrong with a guy playing the flute. I`m no saying it`s wrong in the US either, only that the great bulk of society seems to think so. So you guys (and you girls) play what you like and don`t let other people with narrow minds stop you from what you enjoy best.

Bilbo- Is there a chance that the parents were preferring a female teacher for their female child, or was it for a male? I know that I am extremely reluctant to leave my young daughters with an adult male, no matter what the circumstances (coach, tutor, instructor etc.), and it is not a negative reflection of his ability, but rather because of protection against the possibility of the unthinkable. A flute lesson would probably be individualized, private, and therefore the POSSIBILITY for impropriety would be increased. Unfortunately, this is what I am faced with as a parent. Maybe I`m way off track?

Yes this could be the case. They may be afraid that I might do something improper or because I`m a male playing the flute, there must be somethng wrong with me,BUT the thing is that I have been teaching good students for 26 years and have not done anything of the sort. To make a prejudiced assumption without intelligently seeing the facts is a terrible lesson to teach their children. This flute is my life, my passion and my reputation. I have no reason to jeopardize that for anything. I have known far more male band directors who have gone astray with their pupils and have suffered the consequences.

As for the concept that a country should be "more developed" to be more tolerant of any diversities. Please forget that idea. It has to do with social trends in a country or across the world at any given moment. I don`t think that you would find that as Rome became more developed, they became more socially tolerant, conservative or whatever than their neighbors.

~Bilbo

I have to say, this conversation is a fascinating one. Kara, I don`t know why you dislike it!

I don`t think I ever thought about male flautists before, being a strident feminist, it`s in my nature to say "I`m doing this and my sex makes no difference". I`d nevre really considered that men might encounter the same prejudice that women do every day.

It`s definately a problem of culture. It`s not limited to the US, though in Britain it`s never seemed to be that big a deal. If you played music at school you were a bit of a geek/wierdo/homosexual (why on EARTH does this forum ban the word g.a.y? How stupid) whether male or female. It`s the same mentality that says men can`t be nurses and women can`t be welders: the more people stretch the boundaries of acceptability the more open-minded the general population will become. As ever, there`s no quick fix here. Boy flautists just have to be a bit brave and stick it out, but at least you know a few years down the line it won`t be the same.

I just think that it has been over done on this board too many times.

Bilbo, I can sure understand your frustration, it definitely is an unfair situation. Your expertise should speak for itself. But, to tell you the truth, I don`t let my girls be alone with ANY (non family)adult male ; there always must be someone else there. Even as an adult male my husband (a teacher/scout leader/instructor) always makes sure that there are at least two kids or two adults/one kid at all times with him when he is working with other kids (male or female). It`s the name of the game these days.

I myself, always leave the door open to my therapy room if I only have one student in there. Many schools even have rules and procedures to follow if a young child hugs you!! All of this is truly unfortunate, but is of course in response to numerous problems.

I do know this, if I wanted the best for my child, and I knew that was you, I would make sure it happened; either through being present (discreetly) for the lessons, or some other such arrangement.

I wish I could say something a little more positive, but I`m sure your expertise will win out in the long run, it just may be a bit of a bumpy road over these types of issues. We are all dealing with it in some form or another. Good luck.

the only guy i met that played the flute is at my school and he is g*a*y. so there i said it.

thats absurd... of course there are guy flautists out there... no instrument is restricted to a single gender

Logan, you will run into that a lot.
I am willing to bet that at least 20-30% guy flutist are g*a*y. Nothing wrong with that. Some of my best friends are g*a*y. I would rather hang out with a g*a*y guy if I had the choice than a woman. Woman can get to caty at times. (Guilty as charged!)

At My school there is about 1000 kids and about 900 of those kids think am g*a*y, but am not, sometimes I don`t even want to go to school no more becuase people ask me some stupied things like how does it feel to have s** with another guy, and somtimes its hard to hide cuz they always find me no matter where I go, and ever time I go to meet a new firend there alway someone who tells that person am g*a*y,but I try to tell am not but they don`t even want to come near me, so all my friend are girls and thank god they sand up for me , cuz if I didn`t have them I would be dead by now.

And some assume that if your a musician... you might be g*a*y. ::sigh::

I have met more g*a*y men who were married and had kids than not... look online and there are g*a*y men currently married trying to be in the closet and cheating on their wives at the same time.

This is the age of metro-se*uals. You can`t even assume the man you`re going to marry is straight.

And quite frankly all 10 guys I played flute with in Jr/High School were probably all straight and just stuck with the instrument they were assigned. The closeted super-effinate most likely g*a*y men usually tried to remain closetted by playing in the brass or sax section.

G*a*y orchestras have budding brass sections. Haven`t you seen the parades?

After reading this thread I realise that string instrument players are very fortunate in that their instruments aren`t gender specific. The Winds seem to be divided thus;

Female:

Flute
Oboe

Male;

Bassoon
Brass

Only the clarinet remains culturally non-gender specific. I notice no-one has yet pointed out that only two hundred years ago flutes were considered exclusively male instruments.
Now that I think about it, there is a slight bias towards double bass players being male.

PS; I`ve noticed that this thread has remained remarkably calm and reasonable. Very odd, perhaps I should stir it up by saying that anyone who likes Debussy must be a fourteen year old girl at heart