I am a woodwind player (tenor sax and clarinet) who would much like a flute as well. I looked around, decdiding i dont want a beginner flute, what features i want, and how much im looking to spend. I want a closed hole, offset g, c foot flute. The yamaha 321 has these features and a solid silver head. I trust yamaha more as SO many people rave about them (compared to gemeinhardt, which is what i had the first time i tried flute, and was disapointed) I was just wondering if any of you have played on this particular model or series (yamaha 300), and what you think. I also plan for the flute to take me through college as a doubling instrument (my main being saxophone)
Thank you!

An excellent instrument, IMO. However I think in a blind test you would find almost no difference between this and the 200 series, which (at least in my area) is the same but without the sterling silver in the head, and significantly cheaper.

You should at least play a few different flutes against each other. There is variance of quality within the same brands.

Some things you should watch out for...

1. A2 => E3 => A3 => E3 => A2. Loud and soft, you should not crack your E.
2. FFF E2.
3. Lowest C adjustment. You shouldn`t have to hold down C#.
4. Quality of tone in upper, mid, lowest octave.
5. Headjoint cut. Modern Rectangular embouchure cut allows for more response/projection/dynamic variance. Small round/oval tone tole provides a good secure tone, but with little room for change in tone color.
6. Bb thumb key design. Some are designed for primary Bb thumb (comfy), some are designed for an easy nudge of your thumb against the Bb thumb, and some are reversed..
7. Key cut. Some keys are designed more comfortably than others. Pay attention to the different feels. You will not be pleased if your new flute feels flat compared to your old flute.

Also since you are specifically considering the Yamaha 321 you`ll want to make sure get their EC cut headjoint with the flute or don`t be shocked if you come across some of the other brands and find that they play much better... it`s all in the cut of the headjoint.

Just a few reactions to consider from Piko`s comments, perhaps to take some of the scariness of that post. To be clear, my intentions are hopefully to cast further enlightenment; not in any way to criticise Piko`s perceptions.

I have found well-adjusted Yamaha flutes to be extremely consistent from flute to flute within a model.

If you are worried about `cracking` the E, then consider 311 instead of 321, because it has a split E mechanism which overcomes this. However in my experience the Yamahas without this are as good as any other flute that doesn`t have it.

"FFF E2" Again, I find the design of Yamahas to be excellent in this respect.

"Lowest C adjustment. You shouldn`t have to hold down C#." For ANY flute, if you have to press on both low C and C# in order to play low C, then it is a simple adjustment issue. If pads are otherwise closing well, then it takes me less than 1/2 minute to make this adjustment. If this is a problem on a new flute that you otherwise like, you should not make it a deciding issue.

"Quality of tone in upper, mid, lowest octave." I don`t believe this is an issue with Yamaha. AT each level, the flutes, IMO, have excellent acoustic design.

"Headjoint cut. Modern Rectangular embouchure cut ....." All Current standard model Yamahas have this. In fact most other brands too.


"Bb thumb key design...." Especially as a doubler, IMO this is a non-issue. First it is so minor that I have never noticed it in many years of flute playing experience, and play testing at least 2 or 3 hundred models. Secondly, there are very few flute players who slide their thumb directly to or from the thumb Bb key. For almost every player, if this is what they need to do, they simply use one of the other standard fingerings, which do the job a lot easier.

"Key cut. Some keys are designed more comfortably than others." again, I consider this to be a VERY minor issue. Anybody doubling from clarinet and sax will already accept and be used to a wide variety of `fell` of keys and levers.

"Also since you are specifically considering the Yamaha 321 you`ll want to make sure get their EC cut headjoint with the flute or don`t be shocked if you come across some of the other brands and find that they play much better... it`s all in the cut of the Head"

Yes, it is all in the cut of the head. Go to http://www.yamaha.co.jp/english/product/winds/index.htm
and click on Woodwind/flutes, then then various models.

You will find that for the 500 series and above you can then click on `Headjoints" and find 6 `cut` options and 4 `taper` options, giving a total of 24 options, with descriptions of each. However the `CY cut`, as used for the 200 to 400 series is not mentioned there.

The `EC cut is currently a very popular one, and standard from the 500 series up to the 800 series, with the odd exception such as an 892 model which uses "AC". However for the top-of-the-range 900 series offers a range of 9 different cuts, INCLUDING the "CY" cut as used on student flutes.

I got this info by:
Go to http://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/CDA/Catalog/Catalog_GSMOCX/0,,CTID%253D236900%2526CNTYP%253DPRODUCT,00.html
and click on any model, then the `specifications` tab, to find out what the head cut is.

If Yamaha includes this as an option on its 900 series, then It should not be sneered at.

Personally, I find the CY head on the cheaper models to be a great head. I happen to like the EC better, but that presumably comes only on the more expensive flutes.

My guess is that Yamaha uses the CY on the low end of the range because they are actually MORE suitable than the EC cut for players who are not at a top professional standard, which is likely to be the case for most people who are doubling on flute.

I cannot see how it would actually cost more with modern machinery to make one cut than another.

If you are doubling, I don`t think you should get too bogged down with all this. The 300 flutes are great flutes to play, and excellent value for the money. They are also very well made, in Japan, and very consistent from flute to flute. Go for it!

Dislaimer: I am not a Yamaha agent, and my own flute is not a Yamaha.

Those are testing suggestions... shouldn`t really scare anyone. Well if you ran through the list and found issues on new flutes THAT would be scary.

Another thought when considering a split E flute you can still test the response of the overblown A... which is an E with timbre issues, it should still not crack.

"Lowest C adjustment. If this is a problem on a new flute that you otherwise like, you should not make it a deciding issue."

Ture, but it is irritating when you are used to a flute in working order... especially if a new flute had the problem. You could probably press the store to repair it if you buy it.

""Quality of tone in upper, mid, lowest octave." I don`t believe this is an issue with Yamaha. AT each level, the flutes, IMO, have excellent acoustic design."

Yamaha is a huge corporation... I`m sure one of those thousands of flutes they churn out could possibly become a lemon on the way to the store.

"Headjoint cut. Modern Rectangular embouchure cut ....." All Current standard model Yamahas have this. In fact most other brands too.

The standard headjoint models on most student flute makers tend to be those round oval holes, but many offer alternative cuts. It`s just something to look out for. Rectangles good, circles bad. Yamaha`s standard student CY headjoint is one of those round oval headjoints and has alsways been. They add new designs under new letters, but don`t change designated cuts.

"Bb thumb key design...." Especially as a doubler, IMO this is a non-issue.

It`s comfort issue. Even if you double you expect a certain feel from an instrument. If you prefer to Thumb-Bb as a general rule, there are some designs that are uncomfortable and others noticably comfy. Some flutes are designed where the Bb-thumb is VERY comfy, but regular Bb feels awkward.

"Key cut. Some keys are designed more comfortably than others." again, I consider this to be a VERY minor issue. Anybody doubling from clarinet and sax will already accept and be used to a wide variety of `fell` of keys and levers.

If you`re upgrading an instrument you already play. It will be noticable. For instance I recently purchased another Oboe, but the different thumb rest position is problematic. I`m getting an adjustable thumb-rest to compensate... you can`t do such things on flutes and if I couldn`t adjust the Oboe I would have had to re-sell it.

Just an FYI -

The CY headjoint is a low rise round ovalish design.
The EC headjoint has a round circle design, but compensates with a high riser for projection.
The AC headjoint is a modern rectangle design which allows for more control of tone color.

Landell flutes makes custom headjoint and had a little walkthrough that will let you know what design is best for you and explains the difference between hole shapes, cuts, and riser length.

http://www.landellflutes.com/

That was another question i had. I AM very interested in the 311 (with split e) but i dont see an option to purchase this flute on a website (like music123, wwbw, or fluteworld) i think the split e is a very handy feature, and would just make the playability of the flute even better. Do you know if the 311 has been "phased out"? Just asking, thatnks for all your GREAT advice, always appreciated!!!

I need an automatic spell checker. Doh! Sorry for the typos.

In the US, If you wish to have split E on a Yamaha flute you must purchase the YFL-574H at minimum, an Allegro model at a brick and mortar store, or import from outside the US from providers such as justflutes.com.

Just to make you feel better the Gemeinhardt 3SB has no issues with high E`s so I would expect the more expensive Yamaha you are considering to not have issues as well. I`m a cynic though... try before you buy

To the contrary.

I owned a 3sb and tried learning on it, against advice from those on the boards about how behind the times gemeinhardt is.

I did it for about and month and then I sold it and got a clarinet instead

Im gonna be safe and just go with yamaha like everyone says. Its hard to go against almost unanimous perfect reviews.

And the yamaha 311 has a split e, not sure if they still sell it or not though, but they did at one time

Sounds like you were a victim of the Gemeinhardt Model J headjoint. Don`t make yourself a victim of the Yamaha CY headjoint.

Be careful. I chose my Gemeinhardt flute through the recommendation of my peers as well. I was lucky enough to find a professional headjoint that more than made up for its lackluster performance.

Don`t make a similar mistake and buy off recomendations of others. Try out different flutes and get the best flute that works for you.

The 311 definitely has not been phased out. It is very common except in USA, which has never embraced split E as have other parts of the world. You will note that it is there on the Yamaha Japan site.

In my country, and presumably UK, it is by far the most common 300 series Yamaha.

Pico, I have not commented much on Gemeinhardt in this forum. This is because I see so few of them made in the last 5 years. That is because the student models were considered universally so disappointing here compared with the equivalent Yamaha, over decades, that they are now barely seen in shops. Gemeinhardt seemed hopelessly slow at incorporating a decent embouchure cut. The student models I speak of were 2ESP and it predecessors. So I know that CY is vastly better than whatever cut the 2ESP had. Can you clarify, which Gemeinhardt models have which cuts? Has this 2ESP been superseded as Reinhardt`s student flute (metal of the head not withstanding, because that is an insignificant issue relative to the cut).

Regarding the other issues above, I think we are getting bogged down with the sort of details a buyer of a professional flute would be considering. WE should not lose sight of the fact that this instrument is used for doubling, and the buyer is considering a a flute that hardly takes us into the price range of a professional flute.

JustAnotherBandDork. You say you do not want to buy another student flute. The 321 & 311 ARE student flute, with the same student flute head as the 200 series - great though it is IMO - except that it is made of sterling silver. This sterling silver does not make the flute cost much more to make - sterling silver is relatively cheap, 30 times less than gold - and it has very little effect on how the flute plays. IMO the metal is primarily a marketing tool to encourage the naive to overpay for `upgrades`.

This is typical of so-called `intermediate` flutes, no matter who the manufacturer. If you want to get to a grade of flute that is significantly easier to play, then you will have to pay significantly more for a pro flute rather than a so-called intermediate.

Having said that, in the "intermediate" flutes more attention may be paid for such annoying issues as sloppy pivots, non-level tone holes etc, that haunt most student flutes. AS far as I know, for example, the 300 series is made in Japan, with typical Japanese standards, but the 200 series may be made in other places, possibly including some input from USA, where mechanical standards may have been compromised. The 311 flutes that I see, straight from Japan, are great flutes.

Gemeinhardt has kept the same standard model J headjoint as their mainstream headjoint for at least the last 15 years if not longer. It plays well, but has a severe lack of capable dynamic range. Which is extremely obvious to anyone who plays other flutes with modern headjoint cuts.

Gemeinhardt has offered many new cuts and options to choose from over the years, but most people stick with the model J. Their K and S model headjoint offer modern cuts.

There is also a quality difference between their plated and solid silver flutes and headjoints. The plated instruments are sent out to an outside plating company which plates the flutes and returns them to Gemeinhardt. Though I wouldn`t be suprised if other large corparate flute makers have the same process.

There is a definate quality difference between Gemeinhardts 2 series and 3 series. They probably choose the better flutes and designate them as 3 series flutes and the worse of the lot become 2 series.

At which level(s) of flute does the buyer have a choice of head in your area of the globe? I don`t think locally the student models ever came with a choice.

I tried all of Gemeinhardts headjoints, and none of them sounded to different. They all sucked. I think what really sucks is the bodies on the Gemmys. What poor quality.