i NEED your opinoins..and thoughts about this...OK

how far has our society come in terms of racism? (black and white ppl mostly)

PLZ!! post your replys and comments fast!..by today?..plz. thank you

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SO, do you think rascism has gotton handled better?..you know..stuff like that. what do you think about our society..?..

ANYONE..PLZ WANT TO REPLY??

well, since this is a music forum, perhaps it is best said that there really should never be, and hopefully never is, racism in music, after all, we all speak the same language

^_^ ahhh..yea, you're right. i just needed ideas for my english paper i'm writing tonight. It's okay, i guess i'll think of something..

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SRY, to bring up this kind of topic you guys...
right, this is a music forum;)...

YUP! it's for a paper...and O..M..G!! Ppl still use the 'N' word? i've NEVER heard it used to someone before..that's crazy!! Knowing that it was in 3RD GRADE..is really sad. i'm sry to hear that..at least i realize how racism is still BIG. thanks for the opinoin! it helps ..
OHBOY! i have lots to write about tonight!

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OH! my friend got made fun of in elementry school. that's weird..how ppl could be so racist when there's young..that's SAD!!..really sad. kids can be so MEAN.i remember those days..everyone made fun of each other..

Schoolgirl,
since race is a very wide topic and you're obviously interested in music, you may want to look into movements such as Tropicalia or the current sampling in Brazil. These musical movements have been largely studied as a musical form of racial integration, understanding race not so much as a biologically inherited quality but in a more cultural manner (race as the different cultural manifestations to approach the real).
If you're into weird music (I am) The Residents show a little of this in Skimo. If you want to look at it in classical music, Olivier Messiaen would be an excellent example.

I'm currently working in a paper that is not precisely about race but involves it, so if you'd like I could recommend some readings.

Hope that this help. Good luck!

Hey juanjose, that's a very interesting topic i should look more into that.
sry , you guys i have to go to bed now. i have school tommorrow!..don't want to be late like today. (overslept)..:D

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"interesting topic:)" i meant to say your post...yea. heehee

I think that racism in the U.S. is less obvious than it was in previous times. People are tolerating and accepting of other racial groups, but even then the terms tolerate and accept still have some negative overtones to them. For example, I tolerate going to the dentist.
I think that public institutions such as schools still have a lot of issues with racism. For example, minorities are overrepresented in special education classes for more info: http://www.people.memphis.edu/~coe_rise/sld001.htm

if you go to that website EMR stands for "educable mentally !****!ed" nobody uses this term anymore, but it was popular back in the 60s and 70s I believe. But yeah in special education you're more likely to be identified as having a learning disability if you are white and having mental retartdation or a behavioral disorder if you are african american or hispanic (especially if you are male).

Personally, I think this would make an excellent topic for an assignment.

how far has our society come in terms of racism? (black and white ppl mostly)

Never far enough. Search "hate crime" on any news site.

Heck... there has been a wee bit of racism here:
http://www.8notes.com/f/25_113451.asp?y=1&sterm=lips

Erin - much of that information is extremely outdated. Special Education laws are way too stringent for anything like that to happen in this day and age. As far as there being a monetary incentive to identify students as Special Ed, I have to tell you that Special Ed is a HUGE drain on a budget. It costs WAY more than it brings in. Every district/school would be ecstatic if they didn't have to provide SpEd services!! It is an expensive program, and comes with a huge amount of state and federal monitoring resulting in fines if you aren't following the law.

Students whose primary language is other than English CANNOT be considered Special Ed unless they have been tested in their primary language and found to have a language/learning disorder in their PRIMARY language.
Being bilingual is NEVER considered to be a disorder.

Inclusion has been the name of the game for decades! At the very least we have to adhere to the "Least Restrictive Environment". Most of the charter schools I work with are heavily into inclusion.

I work in some schools that are primarily hispanic. There is an equal diversity of learning disorders cross culturally and crossing racial lines.

The numbers are closely monitored regarding the percentage of SpEd students. The percentages are very closely monitored!

I absolutely do not think that schools promote racism. I especially protest any insinuation that Special Ed designation is based on race in any way. I have worked in Special Ed for 26 years, and also have the experience of being a mom of special ed students. I know of what I speak.

If there is an "institution" that promotes racism, I would say that it is the media. The media sensationalizes everything into dazzling "soundbites". Small minded shallow people then take the lazy route and base their entire belief/value system on these little sound bites, and take them as Gospel truth!!

Whew! I was getting a little dizzy up there on my soapbox (old reference for you young people...look it up).

Well I'll bite,

Patrick is right in that racism has no place in the music community and that muscal ability or talent is not very much related to race. Our beliefs, personalities, and our education has much more of an impact upon our talent or our musical skill than any racial influence.

So anyway, I think that traditional racism in the U.S. (Black and White) has been somewhat dropping in the past 40 years. Keep in mind that this is a situation, mentality, or practice that is somewhat localized to areas. It may be experienced in different ways depending upon where you are or what you have experienced in your life. It is also not liimited to what would be more commonly referred to as white against black but can be experienced in the other direction as black against white.

I also believe that racism for other ethnic groups or races can be varied in it's intensity throughout the country. For example, in the southwest U.S. there may be increased racism against hispanics or native American Indians.

How it's being handled? I don't think that it's actually being handled well. There are no big movements like in the 60's to break down barriers and I don't really think that they did much good in the long run anyway. My beliefs are that it's primary cause is from ignorance and stereotyping that is handed down from family members of the other races. When different cultures begin to coexist initially they may have had well defined borders or communities. As an example, one area may be called a "ghetto", "little Italy", the "latin quarter", the "reservation". These communities (except for the Indian reservations which were inflicted on them by the U.S. Gvt.) were a natural outgrowth of migration of groups and served somewhat of a purpose for them to get established in a new area and to help each other to survive.
The demise of racism will ultimately be because of the demise of these communities and also through interracial marriages where people eventually won't be able to find the racial lineage of the individuals anymore. After all, you can't call a person a derogatory racial slur and actually be effective in it's purpose if the other person the same race as you. It looses it's sting. Perhaps this country is ultimately a melting pot. It just takes a long time.

On the down side, it may be a part of human nature to find differences between individuals and to put down others or to otherwise elevate our own status in our own minds for any reason that can be used. As an example, you may feel better about yourself because you live in a better house than your neighbor, you celebrate a different religion, you shop at the better stores, you drive a better vehicle, you were educated in the better schools, you play a better flute, you listen to better music (Bach or jazz or 8 cm nailz)...the list goes on ad nausium....if this is true, then racism is just part of a bigger picture.

~Bilbo
N.E. Ohio

I think we have come a long way although, not nearly far enough. I think that the media doesn't help, though.
Subject shift:
For example, I LOVE Flute Talk. I think it is a valuable tool. HOWEVER, once they had an article about gender discrimination in music and how at a blind audition, someone clumpingaround in heavy boots was more likely to get a job than someone who sounded like they were wearing heels. I resent the implication that the article is making because I think that professionals are a little more open minded than that. I feel that in that case, Flute Talk mag sensationalized gender discrimination.
Maybe I'm just naive...

OF course we have come a far way, but not far enough..have you guys heard about 'hate crime' ..i think someone mentioned that earlier. ANYWAY..check that out. it's CRAZY!!
ANd look at all the different 'hate groups' in usa. It's really bad in california and florida..yup.

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In my paper i wrote that...
people have to accept diversity and treat others with respect..and bunch of other things...
*SIGH*..there's a lot of things out there that i NEVER knew of.

It may be experienced in different ways depending upon where you are or what you have experienced in your life. It is also not liimited to what would be more commonly referred to as white against black but can be experienced in the other direction as black against white.

<-- agrees with Bilbo!

I think there were significant amount of improvement in the 60's to change the way race issues were handled in America. However, I think that after that point there were some things the government did that caused problems all across America as far as diversity goes. I feel the government tried to overly-diversify the general American Public.

Examples:

There is no reason a child should be shipped to a school 25 miles away from a school 2 blocks away from his home, and vice versa so that there are even numbers of all races in all public schools. It's absurd.

There is no reason a woman, African American, Latino, Asian, or Native American should receive higher marks on tests for government jobs because of their gender or race. Meaning all of the above including a caucasian male apply for the same job at a police department. The every person applying for the position gets a bonus for their race/gender except for the caucasian male. I have a very G.I. Jane mentality about those type of issues. If you can pass the test and skip the gender norming hoopla then you deserve the job. If you can't pass the same tests as everyone else, you do not get the job.

In a land where we are *supposed* to all be created equally we are constantly being told that we are different. We are divided up into monetary status, racial status, religious status, and gender status to the point where all the majority of America sees are the differences in people and not the similarities.

Until we as Americans can all learn to embrace and respect all of the cultures that make our country what it is racism will never go away. Until we take the time to educate ourselves on the different types of people out there and learn about their lives as much as the average middle class caucasian expects them to know about ours, racism will thrive in some respect. All we have to do is to ask people different from us to give us a peek into their lives, and we can understand in 5 minutes what we were too afraid to learn in a lifetime.

I now step down from my own soapbox and leave one of my favorite quotes:

He who is afraid to ask, is afraid to learn. - Unknown