I am very sorry to see this forum semi-implode, with various people leaving in (dare I say it) a huff.

One of the main functions of a forum, at least of a good one, is to function as a knowledge-base, both through it's posts, and the collective knowledge of it's members. This generally means that bigger IS better, and 3 or 5 or 58 new forums are not as good as a large one, unless you want to go through all the "Yamaha vs. Gemeinhard" and "how do you blow a third octave C?" posts again and again. Therefore when well-informed people leave, it can only be regarded as a loss.

Another function of a forum is as an (anonymous) meeting place for people with a similar interest. As such, it can become an interesting community of people from all kinds of places, ages, and backgrounds. If that means that there is some off-topic posting, so be it, as long as it enhances the sense of community. If that means putting up with some people's idiosyncrasies, (like bizarre spelling) so be it, as long as there is an underlying sense of mutual respect. Some people are amateurs, some are professionals, some are still in school, some are retired, some people have 800 posts, some have 15. This is an asset, not a liability.

One of the dangers of a community such as this, is that certain individuals will try their best to become a disruptive influence, for no other reason than to elicit a response. In some cases, this might be someone called "I_AM_SATAN" or whatever, with only one post entitled "Flutes are ghei!" Alternatively, someone might appear innocuous at first, but ultimately try to harass or anger other members, again with nobody's interests but their own at heart. The best way to deal with this, other than direct moderator intervention, is to follow the old internet dictum of: "Don't feed the trolls", in other words, if someone is obviously trying to elicit a strong negative response, don't oblige them by answering, even if it's to tell them that they're immature and should leave.

Beyond that, the only real option is to treat each other with a reasonable amount of respect and common sense. There is nothing wrong with healthy debate or a bit of an argument, but try to avoid flame-wars. If you sense that someone is getting defensive, then back off a bit. Don't take offence if someone doesn't share your views, don't burn them down to the ground if you think they are blatantly wrong. Try and agree to differ, at least occasionally.

I haven't read all the posts that led to this, I was away for a while, and returned to see Kara and Dennis' leaving posts. I don't really know what happened, and I don’t think it matters, but I do think it's a !****! shame that it came to this. It is futile and unnecessary. I will NOT be visiting any of the new forums that start up as a result of this, but I will keep an eye on this one, and on the one at woodwind.org. I sincerely hope that this will continue to be a fun and informative forum, and that people (especially those that have left) will continue to post.

Well said. I agree wholeheartedly.

The voice of reason.
I totally agree, and at this point I will be doing the same.

Wise opinions, Leporello. I just hope that people could take profit of them.

As I see Dennis initiative, he felt uncomfortable here and also wanted to start his own site with a learning bias, such as studying a piece in deep each week and more oriented to professional or advanced players. Probably that is why he decide to exclude the younger generation. He also wanted to have a very strong moderator (himself) and obviously all this makes his site completely different to this one.

For the moment I think the new site is not fit for my level and I registered but have not posted there so far.

Other people followed "on his footsteps", most notably Kara and Celebrian

All three are were important losses for this place, but probably some of them will continue to visit this Forum and perhaps post here again.

Micron has commented in another thread that fragmenting the flute Forum community is not positive and has compared with the 11K+ memeber saxonweb as a good example.

However, when people do not feel at ease, there is not much we can do about it, even if everybody followed strictly those behavior rules you exposed. And that is almost impossible, I'm afraid.

Hi Jose-Luis,
I understand what you’re saying. I can see that Kara and Dennis felt uncomfortable, and can also see why, as I've now read the threads that caused this. A number of people (including yourself) called on the parties in this argument to please calm down, and the tragedy of it is that no-one did.
What I really like about this form, and the reason it is one of the few forums that I post on at all, is precisely that it is in between those dreadfully serious forums like the Galway, and the almost gamer-forum ones (no knocking gamers, I am one, but the whole "n00b" and "l337" scene is rather tiresome) that you also come across (fluteland.com comes to mind). A big part of that is the mix of people, who mostly treat each other with respect, as wel as a sense of fun, much as they might in real life. That, and the fact that for a beginning player like myself, it is good to be able to ask the opinions of experienced players and professionals, without being made to feel like an idiot. I was very saddened therefore by what happened, and it’s a real loss to this forum.

As far as Micron is concerned (not to beat around the bush), I greatly respect his knowledge, and I believe he’s right in a great many of the things he says. I just wish he had it in him to back off a little occasionally, even if he’s right. I know from personal experience, (having been guilty of it myself on a number of occasions,) that it is very easy to be seen as attacking someone, when you’re only trying to make a point. As far as “ego-stroking” (I’m referring to a post in an earlier thread) is concerned, I don’t think that is the issue here, I do think people have usually been nicer to each other here, or at least more personal in some ways, than on many other forums. I think that is a good thing. What matters is not whether you yourself perceive yourself as being rude, but what the person you’re communicating perceives as rude. I should also point out, that this is a medium wherein the written word is all, there is no non-verbal communication to take the edge of any remark. (Micron, I’m not trying to be passive-aggressive, although previewing my own post I can see that you might take it that way, so please don’t flame me down to my boots.)

I’m sorry if I seem naïve, I just hope that in between the flame wars, that this can be a fun but knowledgeable forum.
In short: I wish people would just chill the heck out!

very well put, I know one thing after being a flute player for 34 years and that is that flute players, like most musicians, will always disagree, they each think their way is best, this is often very true amongst technicians.

But no one needs loose his/her cool, I have learned a great deal over the years from various viewpoints from flute players and other musicians all over the world.

Chill out is the best advice.

HEy patrick, you have a lot of good comments, advices, and opinions^_^ It always makes me think! and i ALWAYS follow it..yup. just wanted to tell you

Chill out is the best advice

yep, i agree.

let's just stay cool and have fun while we exchange ideas with each other.



---kishimotto

thank you school girl, I have been around flute players most of my life, so I have a bit of insight, I have seen the good, bad and ugly in the music world

and to think I started flute just to meet girls

HAHA!:D..girls
yea..i haven't been really INTO the music world yet, so i've only seen the good, not really the bad. Well, being in highschool i experinced a couple of bads..like that unfair judge....but i bet there's FAR worse things then that.^_^

Judging from the posts you kids are doing in the "High Schoolers" thread, life is not easy for young people in the music world at school, either.

Could it be one reason that later, the grown ups kids of yesterday sometimes show certain exagerated susceptibility and such an intense competitivity drive? Just wondering...

In any case, reading that thread could be illuminating for those of us that are not familiar for band life at high school (like me).

But please, I beg those not being part of that age group not to post at that thread...

HHhmm..yea, highschool bands can get bad. BUT i don't really see mine as one. I feel like there's a safe enviroment..well, i guess for right now. I don't know how it's going to be next year with upperclassmen. OH boy, can't wait..

I loved highschool band. It was a focus of my life. We were considered somewhat "elite" in the school because of all of the honors etc. I was able to travel the country because of band. I still keep in contact with several of my friends from HS band.

There was a level of competition, but I don't think it was much different than other groups (like the tennis team or the volleyball team etc). We competed for chairs every two weeks through the points we earned (on specific music) during our weekly lessons with the director.

I loved going to honor bands. They involved an intense few days of learning new music with totally new people (all of whom loved what they were doing).

However, state solo (and all-state) competitions were another thing. I'd get sick to my stomach with nerves. We did it all live in those days. I've heard that now some states have students submit a recording!

Enjoy your high school band years!

schoolgirl,
ooh..i envy you for having such a nice HS band..
believe it or not our schoolband has gotten worse..
they didn't turn out into a team of musicians...instead they turn out into some sort of fraternity...
at first it was tolerable because they just want the popularity and that's ok with me...but later on the members are really getting a lot of fights(i mean serious fights) so i decided to quit the band....
i just joined the the campus choir instead...
i just realized that i could still find another environment where i can enjoy music.
you are really lucky to have a good HS band.

----kishimotto

OOh! i feel really bad for you..HS band is supposed to be fun! It's my favorite class and if band wasn't in my schedule..i just don't know what to do!^0^
At least you're still doing music..choir? that's cool. I signed up for choir next year..can't wait! I'm not much of a singer but..i think it'll be a fun experince. heehee, my whole schedule is all music..:D


<Added>

yea..i guess i'm lucky^_^. Does your B.D do anything about the fighting ppl? Or ppl who don't respect one another?