I thought we were discussing what a repair technician could do with a tenon, not what a butcher might do.

<G> And how does the everyday person distinguish between who's a butcher and who's a tech (until it's too late in many cases)?

This change was also demonstrated by how very wobbly the tenon was in the original socket after the shrinking. We don't need to measure to accurate microns to demonstrate such a large change in diameter.

We are not talking about demonstrating a large change, but a correct fit. Even the sizing kits that many manufacturers send you to size for a headjoint don't often yield desirable results because they are good at measuring a more rigid socket and not the tenon. An average measurement for a perfect fit is just not good enough. If you are drawing to a particular size, that's one thing, but shrinking and expanding for fit and measuring with micrometers is only going to get you in the ball park. (as you've testified with the wobly footjoint experiment). You can only predict whether or not it will go in. That's not the same a having it be fit perfectly for use..

Joe B

Thank you both.

Probably there is some miscommunication in this thread but I'm sure it ONLY comes from style. If I dare whisper this (I usually do not like to comment these details), putting the butcher metaphor there was probably a risky idea.

The information you both have provided is (for me) quite consistent and very useful.

The micrometer I have is old (I inherited it from my father) and I would not put my tongue between its surfaces at any price.

I had the impression (I did not measure it) that it was ovalling the silver tenon because I felt the metal resistance at a certain point, but then I could continue turning, with increasing resistance, until the ratchet slipped. And there was a significant distance between both points. The GMH tenon is stronger (heavier brass wall tube) and this effect was not evident.

I appreciate your offer of information on suitable tools in case I would consider modifying the GMH tenon myself. I do not, really.

I will travel abroad by end of this month, I have good friends there (including a bassoon player pro) and he will take me to a technician he trusts.

I will take both instruments (though I shiver a little on the idea), so that I can get the Gemmie fixed and the Yamaha checked, just in case. (Maybe I will even try a flute -bassoon duet with my friend, the Hallenser I sonata!).

So it was a good opportunity in case my original idea was feasible.

(I can use the ratchet to measure the thickness of my tongue with almost no pain)

Allright Micron...Spill the beans...what is the thickness of your tongue? We all must know! <G>

As usual, my long distance friend....we eventually come to agreement through this process...

Joe B

red light blinking...

Actually micron, it's called diadokokinetic rate, and we measure it through the utterances of "puh-tuh-kuh". I haven't had to do that sort of measurement since grad school, so I'd have to dig deep into the recesses of my mind to come up with the various rates.

I truly don't think it's a matter of tongue thickness as much as tongue placement (fronting) with the production of sibilant sounds ("s" in particular).

Sometimes low muscle tone will also contribute (think of Downs Syndrome people).

But you have piqued my interest on the possible genetic connection.

There are plenty of g*a*y men that do not lisp.

I think that those who are adults who continue to lisp either like their lisp, do not know how to get rid of it and would be able to lose it with the aid of a speech therapist, or have some sort of impediment that inhibits control of their mouth/tongue.

My brother is a down's child at 25 years old and has a severe speech impediment, but his lisping is very different from the lisping of the average lisping g*a*y adult male. His sounds like a speech impediment while others sound... well... like Big G*a*y Al. It is a refined, repeatable, lisp.

For example here's a clip of Big Gay Al's "I'm super" song from South Park the Movie:
http://www.moviesounds.com/sp/imsuper.mp3
(cute song, nothing obscene)

If you can pronounce zoo without a lisp... you can pronounce SUPER without a lisp. It's usually people with lisps that like to say phrases like "I'm super", "S/he's gourgeous", or "Oh my stars" for example.

Les*bians seem to lack the lisp gene and carry a New Jersey accent gene. (kidding!)

I do think many g*a*y children embrace cuteness and effeminacy in their youth before they even develop any sort of gender preferences.

I was a flaming child and I loved drawing pictures of nature, hearts, and stars (gag). Eventually I learned that it was not appropriate and stopped the fem art, but I was not aware how effeminate my body motions were. When in my teens I moved in with my father he made sure to point out everytime I was moving in an effeminate manner and to fix it. As a result I am not nearly as effeminate, but I have some quirks. It was horrid to have things pointed out and "fixing" things was quite painful.

I also believe g*a*y men growing up in single parent households with their mothers in California may often grow to become super flaming queens unless someone intervenes (my Mother never intervened...) and straight men in such households develop some effeminate charms as well. While many g*a*y men who grew up in restrictive families in the South where effeminacy is not tolerated grow up to be quite masculine (some don't)... some however exhibit very odd movement as they couldn't find a good balance between masculine and feminine.

I am always surprised how a thread can derive, sometimes into the most exotics issues!

This one started with headjoints fit and is now on the possible genetic basis of gender...

Well it's OK; so far the red light blinked a little but everything is calm and friendly, as it should always be.

Just wanted to say that the genetic basis of gender is a very polemic concept and it is far from being universally accepted.

Thanks for the article.

I am not an expert on this issue.

Though I tend to assign a biological basis to most expressions of the mind, I am also influenced by the professional environment of my wife (psychoterapist).

Tonight we will meet a couple of friends that are specialists in gender (she) and psychiatrist (he) active in neurosciences. It may be an opportunitity to ask a few good questions about their present position.

Will report tomorrow if I get something interesting.

I changed my avatar with a picture of my recent audition. We played the Allegro from Stamitz duet II. My teacher is at left. In spite of a few errors, it was very satisfying to be able to do this.

Very nice picture jose luis!

Thanks kippsix

We could not meet our friends today so the questions about Gender will be left for another opportunity.

I'm a little nervous because tomorrow Saturday I have my singing audition. And this time is double. A solo: La Vucchella (a Neapolitan song) and later a duet with a colleague, All I ask of you (the Phantom). This last is with microphones, something that I have absolutely no experience with and have had very little rehearsing (just two times...)

Both pieces are sung with recorded piano (La Vucchella) and recorded orchestra (Phantom). So, if I/we lose the thread or miss any entrance, well, I'd better not think about it...

Well, after all this, I will enjoy my holidays as never before.