Help needed with tonguing

    
Help needed with tonguing    21:29 on Tuesday, September 19, 2006          

Vanilla_Wolf
(15 points)
Posted by Vanilla_Wolf

I think I spelled tonguing wrong.. but you get the point. Anyway. I'm working on a fast song right now that we have to put on the field in 1 week, and I can't seem to get the notes out fast enough. All the other flutes can, & I seem to be the only one having a problem. When I try to tongue this one part (6 high g's in a row) my mouth feels all clumsy & the notes run together or don't come out at all. I've heard of double tonguing, but that's a bit faster than I need. I just can't do it, and it drives me nuts! Do I just need to practice, or am I doing something wrong? I can tongue pretty fast when just fingering (instead of going ta-ta-ta-ta I go ta-da-ta-da), but when I try actually playing it the airstream screws up and the notes don't come out at all. I've tried everything I can to fix this, but I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong. Any ideas? Thanks.


Re: Help needed with tonguing    22:14 on Tuesday, September 19, 2006          

music4god
(173 points)
Posted by music4god

for me its how i toungue (sp???) i tounge at the roof of my mouth which gets a MUCH better sound and i do it slow with a metronome (sp???) then challenge myself a tad faster even if I keep messing up till i get it and challenge myself again just a tad faster and so on so fourth..... hope i helped but somebody correct me if im wrong....


Re: Help needed with tonguing    23:57 on Tuesday, September 19, 2006          

Flutist06
(1545 points)
Posted by Flutist06

You actually did spell that right, so no worries there. It sounds to me like you're using a modified double tongue when you say it without a flute (ta-da-ta-da), as T-k-t-k-t-k or d-g-d-g-d-g are the norms. It could be that you are just feeling a little awkward with double tonguing yet, or you might just be having trouble getting your single tonguing to the speed you need it. Either way, slow it way down (with a metronome), and focus on getting your articulations perfectly even sounding and feeling. Once you can do it cleanly at one tempo for a pretty good period of time (maybe 15-20 secs.), bump the metronome up a click, and have a go there. When you hit a spot that's troublesome don't go on until it is absolutely clean. This will help improve both your tonguing, and your endurance when doing so. You may not solve the problem in 7 days, and if not, I would suggest simplifying the part until you can do it right. Practicing it wrong will only hurt your progress in the long run.


Re: Help needed with tonguing    01:15 on Wednesday, September 20, 2006          

GordonP
(25 points)
Posted by GordonP

Does anyone besides flutist06 have a good answer for this too? I would like to hear what a professional like Patrick has to say.


Re: Help needed with tonguing    03:51 on Wednesday, September 20, 2006          

ekdavies
(208 points)
Posted by ekdavies

Double tonguing it may help to get the notes equal but if you are uncomfortable double tonguing it and you cant single tongue it adequately then just miss some notes out! Any good conductor, after a second attempt would suggest that you may have to miss out every other note (eg the ones off the beat or a some other subset) if after practicing the passage you continue to struggle. After all its only cheating to make it sound better!

Incidentally, if you practice eg (fast) staccato scales daily for a few minutes you will be amazed at how much improvement you will make over the course of a week or so.


Re: Help needed with tonguing    07:20 on Wednesday, September 20, 2006          

Zevang
(491 points)
Posted by Zevang

Vanilla_wolf,

It might help if you make sure you are attacking each note properly. The use of the tongue to make sound, even at fast portions of a peace, must be mastered by practice with time.

It's also important to note that double tonguing is not a remedy for pour single tonguing. In fact you must learn single tonguing first, because the principle behind double tonguing IS single tonguing. You just add a secondary attack to make things go faster.

The basis for tonguing consists in moving your tongue to the back side of your upper teeth and than bringing it down quickly. This movement though is made with the tip of your tongue. Take care of what is happening with your embouchure, since you may overmove your tongue and touch the lips. This may interfere in the attack.

Zevang


Re: Help needed with tonguing    07:39 on Wednesday, September 20, 2006          

Patrick
(1743 points)
Posted by Patrick

Gordon, flutist06 gives great answers, especially for someone so young

Vanilla

As with vibrato, tonguing takes time to develop. The single tongue speed and double tongue speed need to overlap, especially when you have an accelerando.

flutist06 described it well, and Zevang pointed out that you have to be accurate.

Practice all articulation exercises when you practice your scales. For ex., do a scale slurred then repeat the same scale single tongue, then do the same scale slurred a bit faster then repeat it double tongued, etc etc


Re: Help needed with tonguing    13:36 on Wednesday, September 20, 2006          

Flutist06
(1545 points)
Posted by Flutist06

Thank you for the kind words, Patrick! It means a lot coming from someone like you!


Re: Help needed with tonguing    15:13 on Wednesday, September 20, 2006          

Patrick
(1743 points)
Posted by Patrick

well, you have an amazing aptitude and energy for someone so young, in fact, we will probably have to address you as Dr. or Professor in a few years


Re: Help needed with tonguing    15:14 on Wednesday, September 20, 2006          

Flutist06
(1545 points)
Posted by Flutist06

That's my goal! We'll see if it happens!


Re: Help needed with tonguing    11:40 on Thursday, September 21, 2006          

Patrick
(1743 points)
Posted by Patrick

I am sure it will


   




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