(Sigh) Don't bother, she is just going to ignore this again and keep on going. Oh well, what can you do?

Lera, the teenager I mentioned is you. The friend's brother is the small do-it-yourselfer.

Lera, please tell us how you installed the pads. Please do not copy and paste information from the internet this time.

Come on guys, she said she has 'strabinger' pads on her flute. Why not? Used to be you could buy a 'Genuine Murazawa flute' (or some such thing) on the internet. I think I'll put strabinger pads on my Miyamatsu flute that I found on eBay for $27.50

<Added>

By the way, Boris, welcome to the forum. You will want to take some of us more seriously than others...

I have a grenadilla Powell Philharmonic-cut headjoint and I LOVE it. Whoever made it was having some seriously good Karma at the time :) Can't afford the rest of the wood flute, or even a Powell at this point in time, but I really like my Yamaha C-foot 881 with the Powell headjoint.

I'd like to khow where you can get Straubinger pad set for $25.
Maybe we should hire Lera to find us cheap flute repair supplies! Why pay $6.30 per pad directrly from Straubinger?

lol!

Edited by Forum Admin at 03:09 on Wednesday, September 27, 2006
Reason: ditto above]

Wow. This thread is out of control. But, hey...the girl can spell as well as she repairs flutes. Gotta er...give her that much.

Oh my, I have to wipe the laughing tears from my eyes now....
What a stress reliever.

Hey now, you better be careful, you might just get your post edited too. lol!

Oh....Lera???? Where did she go? I really want to know how to install those Straubinger pads!

<Added>

Kippsix, you can always count on a good laught when you come on here! I love this bunch!

About Star LP pads;

I am installing Star LP piccolo pads into the new Powell Signature piccolos. I don't have much experience with different felt pads 'cause I have been working with Straubingers from the start, but these are apparently top of the line. I like them. They are pretty flat and on a harder side..

I am frankly amazed at the ridiculousness of the chat threads bad rapping Straubinger pads on this website: "Starubinger pads are crap". There is so much misinformation and uninformed comment about Straubinger pads that I have to respond.

I've played Straubinger pads on my flutes (2 vintage Powells with soldered tone holes and a drawn tone hole Lehner) for more than 20 years and NEVER had any problems. Of course, after a period of time (years) skins may tear or pads need to be reseated or replaced, but that's normal for the usage my instruments get - frequently 10 hours per day and I play a lot of music involving extended techniques including key slaps that put a lot of wear on pads.

My flutes are padded and maintained by David Straubinger. The quality of the work - paddding and mechanical - is superior and there just aren't any problems. I have my flutes completely overhauled about every 7 to 12 years. I have them adjusted annually, sometimes more often. Occassionally a few pads have to be replaced at the annual tune ups but usually adjustment and reoiling is all that's needed.

If others are having problems with flutes with Straubinger pads they should not be so quick to blame the Straubinger pads. That's most likely NOT the problem. Straubinger pads have to be installed correctly AND additional mechanical work has to be done to the instrument for them to work correctly. Tone holes have to be faced correctly or the pads won't seat correctly. Felt pads are a little more forgiving since they are softer and thus have a little more give to conform to uneveness.

IF you are having trouble with pads / flute not responding well, find a really good repairperson, a flute specialist who is trained and experienced on FLUTES. Whatever kind of pads you choose for your instrument, you need a good flute repairperson. Flute manufacturers should have good flute padders and stringers, but that isn't necessarily the case. Padding and mechanical work on flutes is highly specialized and requires long training and hands on experience. Given the huge volume of flutes made and the number of different flute makers these days, there is a wide variability in the quality of padding and stringing. While flute manufacturers should be able to fix problems on their own flutes and should do so free of charge on a new instrument, don't blame Straubinger pads if the manufacturer can't manage to do that. Put the blame where it belongs: on the quality of workmanship of the manufacturer.

If you decide on Straubinger pads, find a repairperson who is trained specifcally for Straubinger pads (see the listing of Straubinger trained technicians on the Straubinger website). If you find a trained Straubinger padder you won't have the problems alleged in this chat and your flute will work extremely well. If you decide on traditional felt pads, you will still need to find an experienced, trained flute repairperson to do a good job for you. I wouldn't consider any other pad types. Straubinger pads are the only thing that has come along in the past century and a half that has proven to offer any real imrpovement over traditional felt pads. In that time lots of people have claimed to have come up with better pad designs. None of them have lasted.

Some hisrory might be to the point here.

The disadantage of traditional felt pads is that they aren't very stable. They change depeneding on humidity and temperature. When they swell in dampness and then shrink back when they dry out they don't hold the same shape - so they tend to leak after awhile. And as they change over time, they have to be reseated or replaced.

Straubinger was one of many who tried to come up with a more stable, synthetic pad that would be less affected by temperature and humidity, that would change much less than the traditional pad and that would last. The problem many had with synthetic pad design was that they were too hard and too noisy. David came up with a design that was stable, wore well and wasn't too hard or too noisy.

The fact that Straubinger was successful is shown by the number of flute makers who use his pads and the number of players who play flutes with Straubinger pads.

Yet despite this, there are many claims on this website that Straubinger pads don't work well. This simply isn't true. Here are some of the spurious claims:

- Some players claim that Straubinger pads are "noisier". Nominally maybe so. They are somewhat harder than traditional, felt pads. But they aren't noisy with a good player. Keys shouldn't normally be slapped (unless that is called for by the music, for example the famous key slaps in Density 21.5). Fingers should be just above the keys and the motion to depress the keys should be very short, precise and gentle. A player who plays correctly this way won't have any noise problems. As Julius Baker used to say "Don't blame your instrument."

- Any other extra "clicks" or noise is the fault of the mechanism, not the pads. Something is loose, felts or corks are too hard or missing or the mechanism is too dry and needs lubricant. Don't blame the pads. A different kind of pad won't fix the problem. A competent repair person will probably adjust the the mecahnism, replace missing or worn felts and corks and reoil the mechanism when doing a repad but the player shouldn't assume that different pads "fixed" the noise problem when it was fixed by other necessary maintainance.

- ANY properly installed pad should not have wrinkles in the skin and should not tear. Straubinger pads don't tear easily. In fact if they are installed correctly and the tone holes faced correctly they are LESS likely to tear than traditional pads. I've never had any problems unless the pad is several years old. Because the Straubinger pad is more stable and changes less than a traditional pad, it actually lasts LONGER. (Bad skins causing tearing can happen with any pad. Years ago I remember Powell had problems with traditional pad skins. So quality control of skins can occassionally be an issue with any pad. My experience though is that there are more tearing problems with traditional pads than with Straubinger pads.)

- Dryness and humidity affect Straubinger's synthetic formulas LESS than traditional felt pads. Whoever claimed Straubinger pads don't work well in low humidity ought to try traditional felt pads in the same conditions. I'm sure they would be worse. Straubinger pads are remarkably stable. That's one of the reasons I use them.

- Anybody who expects 20 years out of a pad job had best plan to play very infrequently. Even if some of the pads last as long as 20 years, a flute played daily for several years will wear and need adjustment and reoiling. Mechanical changes over time from wear to the mechanism will have to be dealt with and these mechanical changes will very probably affect the seating of the pads. However, I've always gotten more - i.e. longer life - out of Straubinger pads than traditional felt pads. And Straunbinger pads being more stable, I have to have my flute adjusted less frequently.

- Any flute has to be adjusted regularly, no matter what pads are installed and no matter how good the repairperson. If there are frequent problems though, either the quality of the repairperson isn't very good or the design of the flute mechanism is poor - unless the player handles the instrument too roughly. In either case, get a better repairperson or ge a better made flute - or learn how to handle the instrument. Don't blame David Straubiner and his pads though.

- New instruments require some breaking in. As they are played mechanical parts wear in and shift slightly. That can lead to a need for some adjustment to restore correct tolerances. It can also sometimes means pads need to be reseated. Readjustment of a new instrument after a few months of playing is normal. However loose skins or tearing of skins after a few months is not. If that happens there's something wrong with the pad job.

- Soldered tone holes have nothing at all to do with how Straubinger pads seat. Soldered tone holes can come partially unsoldered and leak, but that leak has nothing to do with the way the pad seats. The leak isn't then at the pad, its at the body of the flute. A properly faced soldered tone hole will seal correctly with a Straubinger pad. NOTE: the tone hole does have to be correctly faced.

In conclusion, Straubinger pads are great. I highly recommend them. Or get traditional pads installed by a master padder. They won't be quite as stable or quite as refined though. And get a good flute from a really good maker. Some suggestions for top current makers: Straubinger (yes he makes terrific flutes too), Nagahara, Miguel Arista, Emmanuel, Brannen Brothers, Lillian Burkhart, David Williams, Muramatsu (artist, hand made models). Then take Julie's advice: don't blame the instrument and practice.

I have played on quite a few Miyazawas before. I love straubinger pads too...perfect seal...a gentle touch and the sounds simply come out.

Unfortunately i do not own a miyazawa, so i would like to ask, would be it worth it to get Straubinger pads for my Yamaha 381 flute?

Sorry for digressing...

Yamaha 381 is silver plated and the toneholes are drawn, which makes it very difficult to install Straubinger pads that require tight mechanism and perfectly flat toneholes. Only flutes with silver body, preferably with soldered toneholes can be converted.
Boris

Professional Flute Repair
Jean and Boris Popovich
http://www.professionalfluterepair.com
E-mail: fluterepair@gmail.com
Phone: 828-350-9770

We specialize in professional handmade flute overhauls and conversions to Straubinger pads. Satisfaction guaranteed!

would be it worth it to get Straubinger pads for my Yamaha 381 flute?

The pad job would cost almost as much as the flute...No it would not be worth it..

Joe B

If you decide on Straubinger pads, find a repairperson who is trained specifcally for Straubinger pads (see the listing of Straubinger trained technicians on the Straubinger website). If you find a trained Straubinger padder you won't have the problems alleged in this chat and your flute will work extremely well.

The vast majority of inadequate Straubinger pad jobs came from "so- called" certified straub techs. I've redone more than a lot of bad straub jobs that were done by certified techs. Being certified doesn't mean a whole lot if you don't understand the tolerances that are needed to install these types of pads. Unfortunately, it has been demonstrated to me over and over again that there are tons of bad straub jobs out there. There is NO advantage as far as I'm concerned in finding a straub certified tech to get them fixed properly. What you need is someone who understands how to pad a flute. Check their reputation and forget about the "list." The good padders might be on that list and they might not also..

Straubinger pads are the only thing that has come along in the past century and a half that has proven to offer any real imrpovement over traditional felt pads. In that time lots of people have claimed to have come up with better pad designs. None of them have lasted.

That is a bit inaccurate. There are other pads out there, most notably the Schmidt pads that have found a home in many a flute and are also offered by some flute makers as well. These absolutely do not have a tearing problem.

They are somewhat harder than traditional, felt pads.

There are some varieties of felt pads that are harder than straubs.

- ANY properly installed pad should not have wrinkles in the skin and should not tear. Straubinger pads don't tear easily. In fact if they are installed correctly and the tone holes faced correctly they are LESS likely to tear than traditional pads.

That is simply untrue. A properly installed good quality felt pad shows no difference in pad tearing. In fact, the anamoly of the straub peeling pad doesn't occur on improperly installed felt pads nearly at all. All things being equal, on a good installation the skin wear is not at all different. Felt pads are much more forgiving of imperfect installation techniques. Straubs are not.

However loose skins or tearing of skins after a few months is not. If that happens there's something wrong with the pad job.

Well you'll get no argument from me on that one. I'm the poster child for pointing that out..

Some suggestions for top current makers: ........Muramatsu

I'm sure you are aware that any muramatsu flute with Straubs in it has it's warranty voided. (that's not a complaining about straubs...rather muramatsu.) From their website:

http://www.muramatsu-america.com/service.html

"Please note that we cannot accept responsibility for, or provide warranty on, any Muramatsu flute which has been subjected to "filing down" or altering of tone holes. We do not recommend this technique of flute padding for Muramatsu flutes."

That in essence means NO STRAUBS if you want to keep your warranty...Of course their pad jobs are,....well...read my mind so I don't have to rant...

I'm still waiting to see what comes of Powell's new Zinki technology for tone holes.

Joe B