I just don't agree. The thing is that other than a bit of fitting of the keys(soldiered vs drawn tone holes, mostly), there's just no way that a human can do better than a good machine. (though many makers use pretty poor machinery to be honest in this price range)

If were discussing consistency of the product, I would agree that a machine made instrument would be preferable, but there is no way a machine is going to be able to fine tune and adjust a flute to the point that a human can. Even disregarding the headjoint, the smallest detail in the fit of the mech can affect how smoothly it operates, and it's simply not in the power of a machine to assess and address any problems. Then there is the issue of padwork, regulation, and the overall care that is taken setting up a handmade flute versus a machine made instrument. Generally a handmade flute fresh from the workshop will have much more care (and higher quality materials) used when it comes to padding, which can have a significant impact on how the flute performs. Machine made flutes (which are basically synonymous with mass produced flutes) just don't get the same level of attention that their handmade counterparts do, because the money comes from volume rather than fine quality. If we include the headjoint, then handmade heads are far superior to machine made heads, because they can be adjust in minute ways by the maker, perhaps adding some overcutting here, or changing the shape of the EH slightly. Is every head going to play the same? No...But generally they will play much better than a machine made head of the same specs.

As for what you're paying for above the 3k range, name and bling are only a small part of it. The quality inherent in a handmade flute is simply far superior to that of a machine made instrument. Yes, you generally get more silver/gold/whatever the material is, and a well known name engraved on the barrel, but you also get the care of design and construction associated with a high end flute, and this makes far more difference than you seem to recognize.

I agree that the best way to find a good flute is to consider the head and body separate purchases, but there is no reason to go machine made for a correct scale....if that were the case, most major orchestral and solo players would have machine made rather than handmade instruments. Flutemakers have some very clever and reliable techniques to ensure the correct placement of toneholes. As you said, plated keys work just fine, but you also hit on the catch....This is only true if the maker gives the same attention to a flute with plated keys as they do one with silver keys, and this is the exception rather than the norm.

Chris, I do believe that a different stopper can make a difference.. but I do not buy into the whole gemstone crown effect. It is sad what marketers are putting into flutists heads these days. No one can be right or wrong when it is simply just an opinion. And my opinion on it is... HOGWASH!!!

And right you are. I also don't think gemstones matter (at least not in any noticeable way), but that different crowns do, so it sounds like we're in agreement.

I have to agree with mbrowne and pletko. There are flutes out there at the bottom of the manufacturer's line that receive the same attention to detail as the flutes with more precious metals. Altus, Sankyo, Muramatsu, Miyazawa - they all have these models - same amount of hand finishing, padding etc. The price difference is the amount of precious metal used.

If you're referring to "handmade" flutes as strictly those with soldered tone holes, that is also arbitrary. Assuming the drawn tone holes are quality, some claim there's no difference, some say there is. Some say the difference is so slight it's only noticeable to the player. If it's worth $5K to you to have soldered tone holes, go for it.

Also, saying the crown changes the "feel" of the flute doesn't make sense. I tend to touch my flute with my fingers and my lips. I don't go anywhere near the crown. If you're saying the crown causes the flute to vibrate differently, that is understandable, although I've never encountered a crown like that. Have double blind studies been done with crowns like they were done with precious metals?

Ok Micron, I agree with you there. I should've stated that the precious metal content is the manufacturer's justification of the price difference. And as you stated, the price difference is ridiculously inflated.

The only precious metal gimmick I've ever thought creates a difference is the material of the riser. But then again, it could've been the cut of the embouchure hole that was creating the difference.

We all seem to have different ideas of what is being discussed here...When I say handmade, I refer to more than just soldered toneholes....I mean that each part of the mechanism is handled and fit by hand to create a particularly smooth mechanism. Essentially, a handmade flute is a one-off proposition in my mind, rather than the mass produced flutes put out by several large manufacturers. I would think almost any flutist who is at the level to appreciate a custom built instrument can sense the difference between a fine, custom flute, and a mass produced instrument. I'm not saying that custom built flutes are better for every player....We're all at different levels and have different needs in an instrument, but the quality of design and the hand craftsmanship (in some cases, one person will build a flute from beginning to end) makes a big difference in how the instrument performs. And to Tim, there is more to how a flute feels as you're playing it than what your fingers pick up. The player should be getting some sort of feedback from the instrument....Does it have a comfortable amount of resistance? Is the response clean and fast? Does the flute balance easily and comfortably in the hands? All of these come with the "feel" of a flute, and do not necessarily relate to vibrations in the tube. I am not one to blindly follow the many trends that come up in the flute world, but I'm also not obstinately set against progress or using what comes out (in the event that my experimentation shows it to help), and am thus do not simply write off all gadgetry as a "gimmick." Yes, a lot of what we hear is marketing BS, but there are also some things among all the jibberish that do make a legitimate difference. In any case, I think we have stumbled upon a rather large difference of opinions, and we may just have to accept it as such and let the debate go.

Then there is the issue of padwork, regulation, and the overall care that is taken setting up a handmade flute versus a machine made instrument.
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This is, like I said, where you make your decision, or at least I do. Let's face it. We're talking about a metal tube with fancy holes in it. If it were wood, yeah, whole other story. But metal is metal. So it's really the keys and so on that make the difference as far as the body(part) is concerned.

And all machine made flutes are hand assembled and regulated and so on. There's actually very little difference between the basic student models and the pro models for many makers except for the extra few hours the better tech spends going over it and the materials themselves. So say, a bottom-end Sankyo... it uses the same mechanism, pads, and so on as the top end model.

Hand assembled and handmade... unless they only make 3-4 flutes a month like, say, Landell, it's all machine-made and the difference between the two terms is essentially marketing.

NOW... as for headjoints, here I agree. This is the engine of the sound and the rest - it's all a means to amplify and tune it. (similar to an exhaust system for the engine) Handmade is almost always better and here's where the money should be spent, IMO. Of course, it's a lot less flashy than a body with silver and keys and so on...

My recommendation for the penny pincher:
Get a bottom end Muramatsu, Sankyo, or similar flute with a plated body. Essentially their top end model without the silver. Add in a 1-3K handmade headjoint. Yes, it'll run about what the flute itself did, though you can sell the old headjoint for a few hundred dollars to offset a little of the cost.

~2K for the body, minus $300 or so for the old headjoint. Figure $1700.

Nomata seems like a good upgrade to a Yamaha 500, for instance. 600 series key options and a scale that's very close to Cooper's(asked about this, got confirmation). $2K.

- $1500-$2000 or so for a good headjoint(I like Landell, ymmv of course).

As for the stopper/plug, I found that the biggest difference is the shape and pattern(if any) on the metal face. But it's tiny - so much so that I notice no difference between stock and when I put in a mic.(replaces entire stopper)

Hand assembled and handmade... unless they only make 3-4 flutes a month like, say, Landell, it's all machine-made and the difference between the two terms is essentially marketing.

And makers like Landell are exactly the types I'm talking about. Note my use of the words "custom built" in my last message. It seems we may have been misunderstanding each other this entire time. I was talking about stock intermediate models (without upgraded heads) vs. handmade flutes, while it seems you were talking about intermediate bodies with different heads vs. handmade instruments. On that count we agree to a point. There is little difference between a handmade flute and a handmade headjoint on a machine made body, at least when it comes to sound. However, higher level bodies will have a more refined mechanism. Is the body less important than the head? No....Not to the player, who has to be comfortable with whatever set of keys is under their fingers. However, to the audience, assuming the body is built with a decent scale, and the player can compensate for pitch, it matters very little what flute body a performer is using. It's all about what point of view you're looking at.

And to me, "feel" (visual appeal included) has pretty much zero to do with the sound a flute can or cannot make. As long as the mechanism is functioning up to the standard required (as indeed it does on a well adjusted student flute, "feel" is little more than some sort of psychological prop that the player actually does not need unless he talks himself into needing it. Just like whether a car doo goes 'click' or 'thuck' when closed, has zero to do with how the vehicle moves.

Visual appeal has nothing to do with "feel," so let's leave that out of the discussion for now. In the course of playing, you get feedback from the flute, and regardless of how it sounds, this feedback can influence you to either like or dislike the instrument. You may be able to pull a gorgeous sound of a particular instrument, but if you're having to work too hard for the sound, you're probably not going to be satisfied with it. A well adjusted student flute may do what it was meant to do, but the smoothness and fluidity of technique a player can achieve may be limited in comparison to what a finer instrument's mech could offer. A positive feel (meaning a flute you're comfortable with in all aspects) is something a player absolutely needs to achieve their highest potential, and is in no way a psychological prop.

As you've just defined "feel," I still stand that crown replacement has no change to the feel. I'm not alone in this opinion. And I know that you believe oppositely, and you, also, are not alone in that opinion.

With matters as intangible and subjective as this, there's no sense in battling it out.

I agree completely, Tim. To each his own. I consider the matter closed.

WOW! That was some fun reading! Gotta go teach now...but really enjoy reading you all going back and forth! Personally, I play on the Sankyo Silver Sonic and LOVE it. I have tested several other flutes and it really works for me. That goes back to the idea that the flute kinda chooses you! And from all I have read, Sankyo handmakes all their flutes...so if you want the handmade benifits, get the 201...which I think is silver plated but still handmade. And I am sure there are other flute makers out there who handmake all their flutes...even some silver plated. I think the idea of buying a good solid mid-level flute and upgrading headjoints is GREAT! I am actually currently talking to a head joint maker and hopeflully getthing several to try next week!!! YEA!

Best of luck on your search...especially with all this discussion! Don't know if reading all that made it more apparent what to do...or made it harder to see what is right! I think one thing that most people agree on is to try several and see what works for you!

i realize i am a bit late on this, but i have to agree with the others in saying that quite a few flutemakers out there today sell less expensive handmade models with less silver content than their top of the line models (silver, not gold/platinum). this seems to be the trend with japanese flutes and not so much with american flutes. i will use muramatsu as an example, since i play a muramatsu flute. their entire line is handmade. the ex model only has a silver headjoint with the body and keys plated. the ds model, completely silver. another example is miyazawa. the 102 has a silver lip plate/riser. their boston classic is completely silver with soldered tone holes. by the way, i do not sense a difference between the drawn and soldered and think that its a waste of my money to pay for the soldered. and yes, i also agree with flutist06 on stating that all flutes have a certain degree of machine work, but this varies from company to company. there are also companies who offer the "handcrafted" flute, which is the compromise between machine and handmade.

lol, sorry i haven't commented in awhile! there was so much good response, and it was like !!! to me, and i don't even know how to respond. i've read around the forum with people trying to get advice....


and i still don't know how to respond so maybe i'll come up with something when it's not so late. >_>

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i don't know if this will help, but my gemeinhardt is about 5 years old, and it was a display instrument when i got it. i also have to admit it could use a repair, which is what i was thinking of instead of getting a new flute all together. however, i've played on some of my friend's flutes (which are mostly yamahas and pearls) and i definitely can see that i can do so much better than my old gemmie. plus the headjoint has little projection and an average response, which isn't the sound i want.

i may not be a performance or music major next year, but i love playing flute and i would much rather sound good.


i like the idea of having a almost/fully handmade flute, but i don't want to spend the money on a "higher" end flute when a "lower" end flute has the possibility to sound like it. that's what i'm looking for, especially since the budget is so small.

Before you can accurately compare your friend's Yamahas and Pearls to your Gemmie, it needs to be in proper playing order. Leaks and mechanical issues can significantly affect how a flute performs, and you may find that the repair makes it satisfactory, saving you a lot of money. If your flute hasn't had annual maintainance, odds are it's due for quite a bit of work, so I would strongly suggest you get that taken care of before deciding whether you need a new flute.