Does anyone know if playing in a room that makes alot of echoes(such as a bathroom or a large hall) constantly(or everyday) would cause problems for tone quality? Does it get worse when practicing this way?
Thank you.

It will definitely obscure your ability to clearly hear what you're doing, and over a long period of time, I wouldn't be surprised if it hurt tone quality. Live rooms (like the bathroom) can be used to give an ego boost (as the hard, flat surfaces will often give the impression of a better tone without having to work too hard), but a fairly dead room would be a better choice for your day-to-day practice. Not only will this allow you to hear what you're doing without echoes confusing what you're actually hearing, but it can help with projection, as you may need to play out more to hear yourself like you want to. When you get to a performance, the hall may be pretty live when you warm up alone, but put a couple hundred audience members in there, and you'll notice a big difference, so aside from the benefits to your projection, a dead room is best when you're preparing to perform, so that you can get a feel for how you'll have to play in the hall. This helps limit the surprise some performers experience at how different it feels to perform than to practice, which leaves you freer to make music. Keep in mind, though, that you aren't pushing so hard that you start to overblow as a result of an acoustically dead practice space, as obviously this will negatively impact tone as well. Find a room with acoustics that don't disrupt your ability to hear yourself clearly, but that still like, and use it to practice. If you don't have access to such a room, it's pretty easy to change the acoustics by adding or subtracting area rugs, furniture, etc. Hard, flat surfaces without items to obscure them (hardwood floors, tiling, etc.) will tend to liven up a space, and soft, textured surfaces (fabrics, rugs, furniture, etc.) will tend to help absorb or disperse sound waves, leading to a deader area.

Erm..haha...its actually Reverb and not Echo.

Echo happens in regular intervals of time...like stuff u see on movies and mountains...

Yes, the real pure echo is truely rare in nature because it takes a pretty flat wall to reflect sound back to the source. In older concert halls the designers intentionally created vew flat surfaces. They included a lot of intricacies, curves and sculptures in their design to reflect the sound into reverberations. The trick for a good hall is to balance the sound in the audience with the sound reflected back to the stage.

Like with flutes and practice rooms, it may actually be best to have variety. You can't understand your tone qualities and how much you project your tone if you only play in a cubicle.

i agree, you never what accoustics you will encounter, if you feel confident in a dead room, that will help you when you get to an audition and the accoustics are flat and dead...

But playing sometimes in a place with nice reverb (I used to do it in a big underground parking) can be helpful if you ever feel down...

But Jose,
doesn't playing underground make you feel even lower than most others?

I don't know, but it's probably good to practice in a different room every once in a while. It's slightly daunting playing in a large hall if you've only been practicing in a small room.

Bilbo, in a way, yes. But it was amply compensated by the pleasure of the apparently nice sound. And I added my Finale-made Basso Continuo, this made the experience worth of, even if I had to descend a few meters into mother earth.

Jokes apart, I am serious in that playing now and then in a place that improves the sound one can produce (even apparently) is a rewarding experience, but it is quite misleading and should not (IMO) be abused. My classes take place in a very small classroom, heavily insonorized and the results in tone quality are startling and could reduce the quality of my performance.

The opposite room change also added difficulties: At my end-of-the-year concert, I played in a considerably bigger room, with public and I had problems listening to the recorded B.C while playing, something that had not happened in the small classroom. I started to lose the right tempo. This could have lead to a catastrophic dis coordination and maybe even to a shameful premature stop.
Fortunely my teacher was there, noticed the problem and raised the level of the recorded BC so I could adjust. But what a risky situation!!!

For this reason, I believe one should try (whenever possible) to practise in a room that has similar reverberation and sound response as your classroom has and of course, when the time comes, to rehearse in the same hall or theater before a concert, even while at the student level.

This rehearsals may cost money or be difficult to get and are reserved basically for professionals. Sometimes they are neglected with students as as it happened in my case. But it is, IMO, a risky mistake.

This year I have changed school (kept same teacher) and in this one we are "invited" to perform in public at least once in each quarter. But I will demand to be able to rehearse and get used to the acoustics of the bigger room where those concerts take place.

Hi, It is interesting that you are paying attention to the room acoustics. They are very importantto our performances as you are finding.

The parking garage. All kidding aside, would have a large echo factor if it were completely empty unless it's curved (which costs more to make). If there are cars in it, that would cut down on the echos and add some reverb but generally the flat cement walls and floor/ceilings reflect sound very well. Even more so if any of the surfaces are painted. We tend to practice wher we are the most comfortable. We should practice where we are going to perform but usually we can not. Even concert halls change their acoustics when they are filled with people instead of empty chairs.

Playing in a room with a lot of reverb, we know makes us sound better but it tends to hide our true tone quality. If yuo have to perform in a room like that, it's ok but if the room is dry, it's going to be very discouraging because the flutist may very well have cultivated a airy tone.

As for your performance where you loose the tempo. I'm not so sure that you aren't meaning loosing the rhythm of the B.C. In this type of music it is important to keep with the acc. It is even more so if the acc. is recorded and not a live person. It is unfortuntat if the acc. is recorded because part of a performance is the interaction between the two parts and not you one sided interaction with the recording. As you know, When the music was written the instruments were different. If your recording was a harpsichord "sound" the tinkling sound can be easily lost if you aren't used to hearing it because it is more delicate than a grand piano for sure. The balance would have then been improved by playing on a Baroque Traverso instead of a very modern Boehm flute. I find that some of these modern instruments are a bit more difficult to tone down at certain times. Practicing softly for tone and balance with the accompaniment is just one reason why we play with the accompaniment in the room of performance.

School classrooms can be a bit echoy. At least the ones that I know of. Painted paster walls and ceilings/wood floors and a lot of glass window acerage. Gives the teacher a lot of leverage with raising their voice.


With respect to this acoustic issue and balance,
I play fairly often in churches and the accompaniment people tend to limit the rehearsal experience to a few minutes. This only gives time for a player who knows the music to get the timing coordination and to hear the acoustics. Not much time for refining the pieces balance, tuning and paying respect to other musical nuances.

I would also say that if you were giving a 'recital', then preperation in the room is rather vital for the younger player who needs to get the balance right to get through the piece correctly. That is one of the more basic points of playing good music. "-play the right note at the right time." After you do that well, you can move on to refining other issues. Tuning, dynamics, rubato (if used) articulation and such. -It's all part of the fun.

those are all good points...another reason to sometimes practice in a dead room, is so that you learn not to force your tone in certain situations, such as auditions...if you play with a relaxed, focused tone, you won't overblow when you audtion or compete in a dead room, or behind a big curtain...

All important issues. Some of them I have learnt the hard way.
The parking garage at home really has a nice acoustics, no long reverberation but enough to improve my perception of the music. It is not a square space but a rather intricate, with two levels communicated by a curved ramp. So curved that my 4x4 barely gets through it.

I commented some time ago that I stopped practising there because of fuel vapours. My silver flute was getting black and so probably my lungs... But it was a good experience at a time I was doubtful...

The "losing otf tempo". Probably my bad English again. I meant losing the coordination with the recorded BC (my playing being late, for example). I do not how to explain it better.

I agree that the real pleasure of the music is to be able to do it together "live". Out of my possibilities for the moment. When I get a higher level I intend to meet people playing chamber music and try to get accepted. Right now I have a long way to go. The Basoon professional player who is my friend and made the B.C. recording for me has already invited me to play with him. I am a still little bit ashamed and have not looked forward eagerly for the opportunity. Anyway he lives some 9,000 miles away so I have a good excuse, no matter that I am visiting him a couple of times per year.

So playing with a recorded acc. is a middle solution and for me it was a great discovery and a jump ahead.

This year I will study, among other things, the Siciliana Op. 78 of G. Fauré. I have bought a full score (Conductor's score) and I have already begun to write the full string ensemble + Flute and Clarinet in Finale. My idea is to experience (dream, in a way) how I would sound playing with a small orchestra.

I intend to share the acc. it in this site when (and if)it is completed. But it will take me rather a long time!

This experience, as well as playing now and then in a acoustically rewarding place is something I would recommend to late beginners and early intermediate students. As far as my experience goes, it can be very positive. It can become sort of an addiction too, and lead to neglect other important aspects of the practise, so we should (as with almost everything) do it with precautions.

The balance (as I understand it: the right proportion of soloist and accompaniment sound levels) is particularly difficult when using a recorded acc. The flute can be a rather weak instrument compared to say, a grand piano. But the flute sounds so close to the player's ears that it can easily make a suitably balanced acc. difficult to be heard for the player. This is what happened to me, I guess.

But the public will get balanced and nice music, that is, provided the soloist does not get lost completely as I was close to be!.

It was the first time I played in in public with a recorded acc. and the results were mixed. I think for the public it was OK, but now I am a little bit scared about the risks. Also, nobody else did it, so I was alone with the experience. Next time I will think it twice.

My teacher is very concerned and critical with tuning issues. She would make me spend me quite a time before the recital or immediately before the performance adjusting my tuning to the recorded acc.

I hope I will sometime in the future learn the subtleties she can hear and I cannot. When the instruments are similar i.e two flutes, it is very easy to tune, but how comes she can hear the differences with a harpsichord chord? It still amazes me. With a bassoon it is a little bit easier, in spite of the big octave distance.

In any case, this is an added difficulty one does not encounter when playing solo.

Sorry I ended up with such a long post

>"I commented some time ago that I stopped practising there because of fuel vapours. My silver flute was getting black and so probably my lungs... But it was a good experience at a time I was doubtful..."

Good move to leave that place. I'm always a little concerned about security in those places especially at night.

>"The "losing of tempo". Probably my bad English again. I meant losing the coordination with the recorded BC (my playing being late, for example). I do not how to explain it better."

I understand this. Sometimes the flutes tone production method can cause a lot of the sound to go up the nose and this makes the flute particularly loud to the player. you can loose the accompaniment. This is why I prefer to be close to the piano when playing. The last time that I played, I had a choir between us and I could not hear the piano so well. Same problem as you had.

>"I agree that the real pleasure of the music is to be able to do it together "live". Out of my possibilities for the moment. .....The Basoon professional player who is my friend and made the B.C. recording for me has already invited me to play with him. I am a still little bit ashamed and have not looked forward eagerly for the opportunity. Anyway he lives some 9,000 miles away so I have a good excuse, no matter that I am visiting him a couple of times per year."

Get together with whomever. Flute duets, singers and make music together. It helps with a lot of things.


"It was the first time I played in public with a recorded acc. and the results were mixed. I think for the public it was OK, but now I am a little bit scared about the risks."

Hehe. The risks. That's part of what makes music exciting and fun to do.

>"She would make me spend me quite a time before the recital or immediately before the performance adjusting my tuning to the recorded acc."

Tuning is important but not to excess. It should however be done throughout the performance on every note.


>"I hope I will sometime in the future learn the subtleties she can hear and I cannot. When the instruments are similar i.e two flutes, it is very easy to tune, but how comes she can hear the differences with a harpsichord chord? It still amazes me."

With the harpsichord I guess that you have to hear and remember the pitch faster. The tone quality makes this tougher true but experience improves us. Personally, very often I find that I can't tune to a saxophone.


>"Sorry I ended up with such a long post"
Always good to read a good post Jose. long or not.

Thanks for your comments, Bilbo. Your replies are always so helpful, full of knowledge, serious even when kidding and comforting. It's a pleasure to read you posts.

i think doing that is fin every now and then. to expeirience difrent things. but not all the time. becuase when you practice in flat rooms you can hear yourslef better then when you play in a room with "echo".