Since I have been lambasted, and burned at the stake for suggesting that most flutes, chosen by professionals, or serius stutents, should be a "French model" flute, with a low B foot joint --- then would you connoisseurs please tell me where I went wrong?

I went to fluteforum.com, and (at last count) 24 out of 30 flutes for sale were (and we're talking up-scale flutes, here) ARE: French model flutes with a low B foot joint. ??

Are 24 out of 30 as "nuts" as I am? What am I missing, here?

I am NOT pontificating, here. I'm really looking for help, since I would like to buy a flute to replace my aging Powell.

Open to any suggestions.

Jim Millen

Where you went wrong was suggesting that B footjoints, offset/inline G's, or open holes made a difference, and people searching for a new instrument should disregard any flute that does not have a B foot, Inline G, and French key cups. This is all misinformation that has been floating around for a long time, and it is not unusual for us to run into folks who believe it, but nonetheless it is still misinformation. If you find a great flute that has those specs, and you're comfortable with it, then that's fine, but great flutes are not limited to that list of specs. The general attitude with which you wrote your first few posts didn't help either....We are more than willing to correct misconceptions as the need arises, but being force fed information we know to be inaccurate, and then having someone erupt when we point out that it is inaccurate doesn't sit well.

A B footjoint does not add any resonance, or affect how well a flute responds. That's primarily an effect of the headjoint, and how it was cut. Most professional flutes for sale in America do have a B foot (though this is much less common in other parts of the world), and with a good player, pro flutes often do sound more resonant than student models (which usually have a C foot) as the one of the only obvious differences between a student flute and a pro model. However, this does not mean that a flute with a C foot is automatically a student model, or will sound any less resonant (or speak any differently). A Haynes with C foot will play much better than a B foot flute from Gemeinhardt. Also, VERY few pieces have a Low B (somewhere around 80 at last count, and mostly in modern solo or orchestral music, which relatively few players ever study), so having that extra bit of tube only adds weight without adding much utility, as almost all of these offer an ossia for players without a B foot. In America, C foot instruments generally sell for less than their B foot counterparts (even if this is the only difference between two otherwise identical flutes), so for those on a tight budget, it can mean the difference between a good flute, and a great flute...Or just save someone who doesn't care about having the B foot a good chunk of money.

The Offset G/Inline G decision is entirely a matter of comfort for the player's hands/arms (similar to the discussion of overall body position we had relating to Jean-Pierre Rampal). Neither configuration offers an advantage acoustically, or intonation-wise. Those shopping for a flute should try both, and decide which is more comfortable for them. Offset G's are more ergonomic for most people, but there are some folks who prefer an Inline G. If we want to get into reliability (quite aside from playability), Offset G's are the better choice, as there are some compromises built into an Inline G just to get all the keys working on one rod. This can be especially problematic if a shopper wants a Split E Mechanism, as this, in combination with an Inline G can cause the mechanism to bind.

As for open holes, they add nothing to the flute for most players. They are useful only if you need to perform extended effects (glisses, pitch bends, multiphonics, etc.), play into the 4th octave, or do some pitch shading. Most people will never reach the level where these are necessary, and for those that do, most have no interest in the modern music that all of this is common in. Open holes will not affect the sound of the flute, or any other facet of how it performs. Most intermediate flutes and above that are made to be sold in America have open holes, and there's nothing wrong with having them (you can always get some plugs if they prove troublesome), but for most players they serve absolutely no use.

The French key/Inline G configuration you were encouraging people to buy is fine for those who it fits, but is by no means the "best" configuration. Open holes were made the standard at the Paris Conservatoire early in the 20th century so that its students could study the contemporary literature (with its new techniques) that was being written then, and as it was (and is) one of the most highly respected schools for music in the world, people began purchasing the same flutes that the Paris Conservatoire required of its students, and from this, the myth that open holes were better grew. A similar story holds true for the Inline G. One of the foremost flute builders of the 19th and early 20th century was Louis Lot. As a way to eliminate a rod, and thus get more flutes out the door, he introduced the Inline G configuration (keep in mind that Boehm's original creation had and offset G). As he was so well respected, other flute makers started copying his instruments (just as some Asian companies "cloned" Haynes or Powell flutes to create their own product line), and the myth that an Inline G was more "professional" was started. 50 years ago, most flutes were Inline G models, but as people became more aware of repetitive stress injuries and the like, they began switching to Offset models. Ask just about any company what they are making more of, and they'll almost always say "offset G's." In fact, in some cases, its actually more difficult to resell an Inline model than an Offset.

I hope this answers your questions.

<Added>

Most professional flutes for sale in America do have a B foot (though this is much less common in other parts of the world), and with a good player, pro flutes often do sound more resonant than student models (which usually have a C foot) as the one of the only obvious differences between a student flute and a pro model.

This should read "Most professional flutes for sale in America do have a B foot (though this is much less common in other parts of the world), and with a good player, pro flutes often do sound more resonant than student models (which usually have a C foot). As the footjoint is one of the only obvious differences between a student flute and a pro model, people often mistakenly assume that the difference in how they play is BECAUSE of the footjoint.

"I went to fluteforum.com, and (at last count) 24 out of 30 flutes for sale were (and we're talking up-scale flutes, here) ARE: French model flutes with a low B foot joint. ??"

Hmmm.
I went to http://www.fluteforum.com/ and came up with a site of links.~many of which are bad in that they don't really link to the actual site that they look like they would. For example if you wish to buy a flute, they list target.com which just links back to fluteforum.com.

So, I have a question as to which site that the statistics were derived from. By "up-scale" are we referring to anything above the "beginner level"?


The other question is, " I'm really looking for help, since I would like to buy a flute to replace my aging Powell."

Why not either:
1) buy another brand new Powell.
2) buy another Powell but buy used to save a few bucks.
3) Have your aging Powell fixed.

Personally,
I don't hae a problem with the standard French model, in-line G, low B arrangement. As a matter of fact I have a few of them and would buy another as my option. This is my preference and I'm not trying to change opinions.
I use them because
1)I use a low B and like the high C facilitator gizmo.
2) Although the inline G mechanism setup is a tad weaker or more prone to misalignment, I don't mind the in-line location. As a matter of fact, I feel that for me, it places my left wrist a tad more underneath the flute and consequently, gives a better balance location of support with lighter pressure on the chin/lip. In other players I also don't see the offset G alignment actually helping the G finger placement. They can still have problems with closing the hole properly if they don't pay attention. The secret is to practice slowly (IE: long tones) not just for tone but also for technical support aspects such as ....finger placement.
3)Split E. I don't use em but I don't recommend either way.
That being said, I also agree with everything that Flutist06 has written in his answer on this thread.
But I would not waste much time discussing or arguing about these things. It is just my choice amongst all of these "new fangled" flute fads that permeate the market. Imagine this, in a world where there are people who can play the simple set of bamboo pan pipes with style, grace and fine artistry, we who have these modern Boehm-type machines call each other heretics when we don't play a flute made of the same jeweler's metal.

"Jim"

The problem is not that you got lambasted, the problem is you came on to a forum full of friendly people who often engage in spirited debate and acted like a pompous know-it-all...

You mention a group you play in, but I can't find any such group on the net, your name doesn't come up, so I assume you are using a stage name..

Just come on here, be a nice guy, state your opinions and let the debate begin..

Jim,

Assuming that your aging Powell is a handmade model, why not get Powell to overhaul it? You'd save money, even though the cost of an overhaul may seem high, and have a very nice flute.

Bill

I agree. My guess is that an overhaul and different headjoint will give it a new lease on life. Headjoints are very much like pickups in a guitar. With a simple change you can alter the sound of your instrument greatly. With most guitars, they have two or three built in, obviously, but with a flute... one headjoint won't do everything.

Old Powells are in demand, I agree, have it overhauled "Jim"...

Thanks to all of you who were kind enough to give me advice on "overhauling" my Powell.

As I'm sure you can all appreciate, the Powell is an excellent flute. Overhauling it is an option --- but the "old girl" and I have been married for almost 28 years, and she has been refurbished some five times.

That's NOT my difficulty. The difficulty lies in the fact that, since I live in Chicago, I have a number of friends who are flutists.

They like to torture me whenever they buy a new flute and pit it against my Powell.

Some of this is redundant, in previous posts to individuals, but I recently played a friend's new Yamaha --- and I was very impressed by the lovely tone, sonority and response.

I confess jealousy, and am off to buy a Yamaha.

I also recently tried another friend's new Muramatsu. Unfortunately, he opted for the "wing-tip" embrechure, which I hate. My finding is that in the lowest register, it's clean, crisp and projects --- but I really struggled in the upper register. Muramatsu makes remarkable fine instruments, but I was "blown away" by the Yamaha.

Thanks to all:

Regards, Jim Millen

Jim, I think that since you've found a flute you like better than your Powell, it does make more sense to purchase a new instrument than to overhaul the Powell again, but I strongly suggest you playtest some other makes and models before settling on the Yamaha. When you're looking at handmade custom instruments, it only makes sense to try all the options before dropping the thousands of dollars it costs to actually purchase one. Here's a partial list of makers who produce very fine, handmade flutes (I rather expect you know about some, if not most of these, but I'll include the list anyway). I would suggest trying instruments from as many as possible...Who knows? You may find one you like even more than the Yamaha.

Burkart
Brannen
Landell
Tom Green
Altus
Pearl
Sankyo
Nagahara
Emanuel
Arista
Straubinger
Williams
Miyazawa
Muramatsu

Powell is my #1 favorite flute and then Yamaha comes in tie with some other amazing flute brands in second for me. I would advice strongly to try out some of the new Powell flutes before making a final decision. I am also not too fond of the Yamaha headjoints. The Powell heads take some work, but are very nice. There are so many phenominal flutes out today that you may be very surprised.

my Haynes is from 1951 and is doing fine, there are some players in NYC who play on Louis Lots from the late 1800's as well...a friend of mine has a Powell from 1939...

Jim,

If you are in Chicago, Why not wait for the Chicago Flute Festival in November and go try a whole lot of stuff...

Nov 10-11

http://www.chicagofluteclub.org/flute-festival.html

Joe B

Silly Joe, the Chicago Flute Festival is obviously not for serious flutists since the flute on their web site is CLOSED HOLE.

I got a Powell the same year as you Alie. It is great.

Okay, like I hate you all, you have Powell flutes!!! grrrrrrrrr

I have an Artley! So there!