Here is my final argument on French model flutes vs Plateau:

From: pjrobison@comcast.net
Date: Sun, Oct 21, 2007 7:19 am
To: James Millen <jim@capitalquest.us>

Dear James Millen!

Thanks so much for your kind words!
I agree with everything you said.
Silver responds beautifully.
French model flutes are more flexible, and you
have more contact with the airstream.
I prefer a b foot, but many players feel that
the c foot makes the flute more
in balance. This is purely a matter of taste.

All the best to you!

Paula Robison

NEXT, from Powell Flutes:

Subject: RE: Which flute to buy

From: "Christina Guiliano" <cg@powellflutes.com>
Date: Fri, Oct 19, 2007 7:34 am
To: <jim@capitalquest.us>

Dear Mr. Millen,

Thank you for your e-mail. I am sorry you have had such awful experiences with online forums – generally, I’ve found it is difficult to trust what is being said in environments such as that. You never know who really is talking to you.

Here are some of the pros/cons I’ve found:

Plateau (America) cups – since they are less popular their re-sale value tends to be lower; the mechanism is much more stable as each key has more weight evenly distributed across the pad

Open (French) cups – having the open center allows for small modifications of pitch and glissandos; generally, open hole instruments tend to project easier as the sound is escaping the instrument in more places;

B Footjoint w/ gizmo – B footjoint instruments tend to have a slightly darker, rounded top register; the option of the low B note is handy; the B gizmo when pressed down and playing C4 brings the pitch down

C Footjoint – overall the instrument sounds more “French” (clean, crisp, light, delicate); the C footjoint is physically lighter; bottom notes (D, C#, C) tend to pop out very easily

You can combine these options for instance – it is possible to get a French cup, C footjoint flute.

The material question is ongoing. There is a significant difference in the longevity of a nickel-silver plated instrument and a solid sterling silver. Plating does wear off, and the mechanism does require more maintenance because of this.

Of course, everything varies by the individual.

If you would like, I would be happy to discuss all this with you over the phone. We also have a Powell dealer in Chicago – Eugene S. Gordon Woodwinds. The owner, Sam Gordon is a fantastic repairperson and can certainly show you all the options available.

In addition, our Vice-President of Sales Roberta Gillette is in Chicago today with Paul Edmund-Davies at Northwestern University. ( http://www.powellflutes.com/news/news_t3/news.asp?id=3 )

I look forward to speaking with you!

Sincerely,
Christina Guiliano
Marketing Administrator
Verne Q. Powell Flutes, Inc
(978) 461-6111 ext. 3114
cg@powellflutes.com
www.powellflutes.com

I hope that you trust the opinions of Paula Robison and Christina, at Powell Flutes.

Draw your own conclusions.

Regards, Jim Millen

Jim

Those are interesting points, but so what, at the end of the day it is the player and not the flute, Paula Robison would sound good on a c or b foot, as would any great player,...

I have played in many places around the world and have never been asked what kind of flute I play, etc, unless some flute player comes up to me after...

Some of these arguments have big holes in logic. I would trust Paula Robison to play anything on the flute, but to discuss what features matter and how, I would far rather listen to someone who has done some empirical experimentation, such as Trevor Wye or William Bennett. What she believes is her opinion, but unfortunately, being a great performer does not necessarily equate to being a great source of knowledge on the instrument. A similar idea holds true with Christina from Powell...She may be a great flutist, or just a mediocre one (I can't say I've ever heard her playing), but the mere fact that she works at Powell does not lend much credence to her ideas, particularly given that she is in marketing rather than actually involved with building or repairing the instruments. I'll highlight some of the things I disagree with below. I apologize in advance for a lengthy post.

French model flutes are more flexible, and you have more contact with the airstream.

What does she mean by "more flexible?" Is she talking purely with regards to pitch, or does she believe that French keys make it easier to perform large intervalic leaps? Perhaps she means tonal flexibility? Unfortunately, "flexible" is too often used with relation to too many aspects of how a flute plays for this statement to be anything more than a broad generalization. If she's talking in terms of pitch (which seems most likely to me), then this is accurate only in that you have the possibility to perform "pitch shading" by only partially covering the holes in the keys (which most players will not do). Those holes do not have any relation to how far you can bend a pitch using only your air, so her meaning thus far is at the very least questionable, and as such, can't provide very strong evidence to either side of the debate...It's all in how you choose to interpret those words.

Plateau (America) cups – since they are less popular their re-sale value tends to be lower; the mechanism is much more stable as each key has more weight evenly distributed across the pad

If we limit ourselves to handmade instruments in this discussion, so as to rule out any questions of quality, stability of the mechanism and the padding aren't really a realistic "pro" to Plateau keys. If Plateau keys really were "much more stable," wouldn't all of the major manufacturers be producing French models as "special orders" and putting out far more flutes with Plateau keys so as to protect their reputations? Even disregarding this, assuming that the fingers are hitting in the same places on each type of key, and with the same amount of pressure, how does it make sense that Plateau keys have the weight more evenly distributed?

Open (French) cups – having the open center allows for small modifications of pitch and glissandos; generally, open hole instruments tend to project easier as the sound is escaping the instrument in more places;

This brings up one of my favorite misconceptions with regards to French keys...It's pretty clever, if not thought through all the way. This misconception is that the air column within the flutes vents from more openings because of the open holes. However, this doesn't hold up. With a "correct" hand position, even with the keys standing open, the fingers should be resting lightly on top of the keys, which alone should prevent any venting that might be occurring at the key holes. However, even if this is not the case, and the key holes are left wide open, the air is not going to vent through the holes in the keys in any meaningful amount...The opening between the keys and the top of the tonehole is more than adequate to allow the flute to vent as much as it needs to, and no air column is going to head for a more distant opening if it can escape just as easily from a more easily accessible one. Then comes the issue with this just not being an accurate assumption when tested practically. If you play with the holes plugged and again with them wide open, there is no difference in projection. This is because projection is a function of the player and the headjoint rather than what style of key cup a flute has on it.

B Footjoint w/ gizmo – B footjoint instruments tend to have a slightly darker, rounded top register; the option of the low B note is handy; the B gizmo when pressed down and playing C4 brings the pitch down

Darkness and roundness is not a function of the footjoint, but of the player and the head. Of course "dark" or "sweet" or whatever other adjective you can think of to describe a note is purely a subjective description, but tone quality is influenced far more by the player than the flute...A great player can make a mediocre flute sound awesome, but a beginner will not be able to make a custom flute sing, regardless of how finely crafted it may be. The headjoint is next in the hierarchy of tone production....A good handmade head with a good player on a good body will sound much more "dark" or "round," even if that body is a C foot. Disregarding the player, the footjoint is WAY down the hierarchy when it comes to what determines tone...A custom made C foot instrument will sound much better in the hands of a skilled player than a mediocre B foot instrument. As for pitch, it's possible to change pitch with just the air far more (and more easily) than on almost any other instrument. If the only reason you're getting a B foot is for the gizmo, you might as well save the money. Some tuner work and a flexible embouchure will be far more effective.

C Footjoint – overall the instrument sounds more “French” (clean, crisp, light, delicate); the C footjoint is physically lighter; bottom notes (D, C#, C) tend to pop out very easily

Cleanliness and crispness are decided primarily by the player (and to a lesser degree the head), not by the foot joint. This is similar to many other comments I've made in this post, so I won't go too far into it here. As for the bottom notes, on a well made flute that is in good repair (i.e. all the pads are sealing), and with a headjoint that's properly able to produce notes in the low register (depending on how they're cut, some heads are much more capable in the high register than the low or vice versa), being handled by a skilled player, low notes don't have any relation to what kind of flute you're playing. The footjoint does not decide response...Primarily it's the player and head that take care of that. A B foot that's sealing properly throughout will toss out those bottom notes much more easily than a leaking C foot. The body is only a means to control which notes are sounding, and has remarkably little impact on other facets of the flute.

There is a significant difference in the longevity of a nickel-silver plated instrument and a solid sterling silver. Plating does wear off, and the mechanism does require more maintenance because of this.

Material can affect how easy it is to do repairs, but should not impact how often they are necessary. For instance, certain types of repair work is much easier on a silver flute. However, that does not mean it can't be done on a plated instrument...If that were the case, Louis Lots, Bonnevilles, etc. probably would not still be in anything resembling playing condition. In any place, the plating should not be in any part of the mechanism that is highly subject to wear. This is a big reason why plated flutes do not have their tenons plated...Years of assembly and disassembly would wear through it, changing the fit of the head and the foot. It's certainly possible to wear through the plating on the tops of key cups, but this should not affect the reliability of the mechanism itself. I'd be interested to know what specifically Christina was referring to with this comment.

Dear Chris:

Once again, I have to bow to your remarkable knowledge of flutes and their construction, despite what Robison and Christina e-mailed me.

I only sent you (their) remarks in order to endorse my opinion of French model flutes versus Plateau flutes.

In life, we usually opt to choose that which we are familiar with (comfort zone?) --- and I've only ever played on French model flutes. As I've posted on previous forums, I've only (ever) owned a French model Haynes and Powell. That's what I'm used to.

More importantly, I've said that I have had four different teachers, (some of whom are "household" names to fellow flutists). They all "said" that if I intend to progress in serious studies in the flute, I "must" have a French model flute. I trusted their judgement (because of their lofty status) and did so.

In a moment of honesty, I will confess that I find the Plateau flute, with an offset G and C foot-joint much more "comfortable" to play.

In my harping about the merits of a French model flute, with an in-line G, and B foot-joint ---- I will have to tell you that these are the rantings of my former teachers: you are, in effect, hearing "their voice(s)" --- not mine.

In closing, however, it is at once both provacative and worthy of note that: IF the Plateau models, with a C joint are on a par with French model, Low B joints --- then, WHY do most professional flutists almost ALWAYS choose the French model, low B, in-line G?

I'm NOT posturing this as an ARGUMENT --- I simply want to know WHY??

The reason I'm asking is that I recently fell in love with a Yamaha (Plateau,low C) flute, that I felt eclipsed and overshadowed my (aging)Powell?

This lends credence to your arguments regarding French vs Plateau flutes, and low B vs C foot joints.

Since I'm in the market for a new flute --- I have to confess that I'm no longer "sold" on French model flutes versus Plateau models.

As "Christina" articulated (Powell flutes) said: "the argument rages on and on".

BUT --- I still want your opinion on just WHY French model flutes are (and always have been) the choice of Professionals.? I don't get it. Maybe you have the answer.

Best Regards, Jim Millen

F the Plateau models, with a C joint are on a par with French model, Low B joints --- then, WHY do most professional flutists almost ALWAYS choose the French model, low B, in-line G?

Well, it's impossible to know what all of their motives are, but many of the current "household names" grew up in the same era as yourself, and likely picked up such instruments for the same reason that you did...It's what their teachers suggested they get, and they never moved away from it. Some will actually have use for the open holes and B foot (Robert Dick, Ian Clarke, etc.), and as such, will select models with those features. Then there is the issue of tradition, which plays a big part in the music world...Many of the older pros played on instruments with those features, and even if they recognize C foot/Plateau/etc. as equal to an open hole/inline G, they feel no compulsion to switch, or like the status symbol that such flutes represent. The Low B is pretty easily explained, as most Low B's show up in modern solo literature....Many of the pro performers involved in classical music actually have a need for it. The Inline/Offset G's are another matter. As the household name flutists age, many are switching to offset G (take a look at Jeanne Baxtresser's flute, and you'll see far more than an offset G on there). Of course, this is all just speculation, and any or none of it could be true. You'd have to ask the performers themselves if you wanted definitive answers as to why they choose the flutes they do.

Yes, I do think that more are now either switching or have already switched to offset G flutes. I speak to many flute dealers and all have said the same thing to me. They only now carry few in line G flutes as they just don't sell. Carolyn Nusubaum only carries all offset G flutes now as far as I am aware of.

I'd take anything a manufacturer says with a softball sized lump of salt. They all to often tend to believe their own hype in order to rationalize subconsciously why they charge such vastly inflated prices for their products.

Just talk to a typical store that sells Rolex, for instance.

My take on this without quoting paragraphs:

- The intro I love. Nice backhanded way to make themselves as the caring "good cop" authority figure.

- They forget to mention that normal keys also COST about exactly the same amount less to buy as they sell used. Funny how that works...

- Open holes actually seal less well, they got that right. But they allow you to do some altering with the sound. OTOH, open holes are NOT a substitute for a quarter tone scaled flute(see Kingma for that). Sound is identical unless someone doesn't know how to make a flute. Typical justification for pushing the higher priced option out the door.(especially since they likely don't make their own key mechanisms)

"As the sound is escaping the instrument in more places"

I call that a LEAK. YMMV, of course.

- B/C foot is B.S. All it does is give you a lower note and a slightly better transition between the first and second octave in some pieces of music(more fingering options) The sound should be identical unless someone made the thing wrong.

- Weight of the flute is also wrong. As if a few ounces of metal at the end of the flute suddenly changed the entire sound.

- Lastly(this I had to quote)

The material question is ongoing. There is a significant difference in the longevity of a nickel-silver plated instrument and a solid sterling silver. Plating does wear off, and the mechanism does require more maintenance because of this.

What a load of... Well, you know. Plating wearing off? Most solid silver flutes will be tarnished and and full of scratches and dings well before that happens. Silver costs a few dollars an ounce and is actually easier to machine and mold than harder metals. The only price increase between the two should be the price of the metal and a small markup.(ie - $200-$300 at most over plated). It's a cosmetic feature, really. Nothing more.

In fact, the whole response you got sounds like marketing nonsense.

***
Christina Guiliano
Marketing Administrator
***

Oh, wait - it is.