Chris:

I thought I made it VERY CLEAR that I was NOT expressing an opinion on "plugging" keys.

Apparently, you do not (or do not have or take the time) to read my ENTIRE posts.

I could care less, whether or not "it has been brought up before" --- I'm entitled to post my comments on this OPEN forum. I'm sorry if you choose to challenge this.

AGAIN, IF you read what I said: I said that it is an on-going DEBATE among pedagogues and artists out there, whether or not it is "correct" to "cheat" and plug (any given key).

I cited (the late) Elaine Schaeffer's comment that: "You either sink or swim". THIS IS NOT MY DICTUM NOR OPINION.

I stand on what I say: "It's debatable, 50/50." I don't know how to be more fair than I could be to have said that --- yet you STILL take a controversial stance.

Some teachers say that you NEVER plug any key --- others say that it's "O.K." to plug whatever key is giving you problems.

I don't have a problem with THOSE authorings --- the problem I have is that EVERYTHING I SAY, is something you take as a "dictum" and wan't to argue with.

Why do you have such a contorversial intent to your agenda (whatever THAT IS?). Am I REALLY ALL THAT STUPID?

I THOUGHT I was helping those who want to know. I DON'T care if it was posted in a "previous forum" or not --- I simply wanted to present MY viewpoint(s). AM I NOT ALLOWED to do this?

Are YOU the moderator of this forum?

It seems that NO MATTER WHAT I say, you have some technical rebuttal. The ONLY thing I can rely upon, is that, after 40 years of playing, "you have to have learned SOMETHING". Forget flute playing --- that refers to ANYTHING in life.

IF you have NO respect for that --- you have NO RESPECT, period.

Regards, Jim Millen (And, TRY and "behave yourself").

chill pill time Jim...

I don't know where to post this, but this seemed to be as good a place as any since the topic of options on the flute came up again and Jim's having a small meltdown about it.


----- Original Message -----
Posted : 10/26/2007 11:29:55 PM

Dear Pletko:

Thank you for your remarkable insight.

I guess I stand in awe at your "taking a shot" at Powell Flutes, one of the most respected names in Flute makers.

****

(the post went on of course, full of vitrol and the like, but that's the important part)

****
My response:

Most of it is because they see innovation and new "features" as being better. It's a lot like audio, for instance. The reality is that all you ever need to know about amplification and speakers was figured out decades ago. All they do now is hype tiny differences as huge ones to comete with each other.

Closed versus open makes virtually no difference. It's a fad, really - and a bit of an ego thing for many players, since it's seen as "harder" to play an open-hole flute.

The foot joint also hardly makes any difference. They could make an A footjoint, for instance, or make it in E, G, A, or any other key. There's nothing magical from a mechanical and physics aspect about how a flute works.

As a result, more and more makers are offering offset Gs. When I was in college, though, it was seen as heretical to play an offset G. I heard all sorts of inane excuses and reasons for it and against the offset, despite there being no actual difference in the sound.

I studied and planned to be an accoustical engineer in college before I went off towards computers. So a lot of my early college and post college days were spent online (way before the internet) and discussing and sampling and so on (I even did old school waveform analysis on a scope). All in an order to debunk and work out the truth from the fiction in high end audio, and as an extension, flutes, because it was my instrument of choice.

But go to most audio forums and you still get people fighting some holy war about wires and all sorts of nonsense that's not grounded in science. Doubly so for the guys selling the stuff. They know better but since dollars are involved... It's a very touchy subject.

McIntosh, Magnepan, Grado, Tannoy.. the list goes on and on. Highly respected and old companies that plainly KNOW better and yet persist in charging silly money for the most minute of differences and passing them off as incediblly important and iunique. Why would Pearl or Haynes or any of the others be any different?

C versus B - also no difference. Though, to be honest, more fingering choice/keys/trills/etc - are always a good option if you can get them. So most players get a B because of the extra options. Why not, after all? Kind of like getting leather and power windows on your car. Slightly more comfy and easier.

Metals, of course... Landell has made an entire flute out of titanium. From a chemical, structural, weight, resonance, and density aspect, it is nearly as different from gold as you can get. Yet the flute sounds like a flute, works like one, and plays like one. There's a very slight coloration to the sound, but it's akin to what strings you put on your guitar and no different than the difference between various brands of flutes, IMO. It's a real eye-opening experience to hear it and then realize that it's counter to everything they are telling you. Heaver isn't any better. More expensive isn't, either. Softer isn't. Because titanium isn't any of these.

Of course, a lot of flute playing is about being happy. The psychological advantage of a great flute with all the fancy things that makes it feel like a million dollars... that can make an impact on your playing.

Look, I'm not trying to burst anyone's bubble or claim to be the world's expert or anything. But the differences between footjoints, keys, and metals are very very tiny in reality. Far less so than even the cut of a typical headjoint.

Jim, try not to take it personally. Chris is just a very knowledgeable person and like me, will speak up if he disagrees on a viewpoint. That is what is great about forums, everyone has different opinions. If he was a moderator of this forum I am sure he would have kicked me off a long time ago. *Grins*

Kate,

You are preaching to the Choir here...


LAAAAAA LAAAAAAAAA AMEN! AAA AAAA AAAAA AAAA MEN!!!

The foot joint also hardly makes any difference. They could make an A footjoint,

Actually, Low Bb is about the limit for the octave length extension. Yes it does make a difference, You just have to specify how, where and when.

The appropriate calculations are many. Among the more significant: cutoff frequency doesn't really change, but you are placing the lattice in a completely different bore to length ratio. You also now have a significantly different bore to length ratio for the same octave length if you get down to low A.

Joe B

Jim you are starting to "bore" me!


hehe

<Added>

Did I just say Jim, OMG!!! Sorry Bill! I didn't mean that! :P

<Added>

Actually, I don't know what I meant...I will go back to my warm, soft, fuzzy computer, and stay out of this...