For those who are intersted in vibrato, I just had a wonderful conversation on the phone with Doriot Anthony Dwyer (former Principal flutist, the Boston Symphony, for some 38 years).

I can't remember the exact page, but if you go to Google and type in Doriot Dywer, you'll get to some sites where you can hear her remarkable vibrato, lovely sonority and "French" tone.

She's the greatest! Listen to her.

You'll hear the loveliest sound(s) you've ever heard from any flutist. And you might attempt to emulate her tone, sonority and vibrato --- for those who are interested.

And marvelous "projection". As reported in the New York Times: "Where other flutists are 'lost' in the symphony, Mrs
Dwyer is heard above all others".

She plays, by the way (and always has) a Powell flute.

She retired some years ago. What a remarkable artist the world has lost. Thank heavens for recordings --- her artistry will live on for posterity to enjoy.

For those who are interested in vibrato.

Just thought I'd pass it along .....

Regards, Jim Millen

Thought that I'd pass this interesting page along.

http://homepage.mac.com/johnwion/vibrato.html

>>Many students start each note without any vibrato and then start an upward vibrato. Apart from the effect on the pitch this also inhibits the forward sense of phrasing. Instead start the note at the top of the pitch (in tune with the accompaniment) and vibrate downwards.<<

That is, of course, unless you are playing together with the orchestral string section that is already pushing the pitch sharper <G>.

Joe B

"Many students start each note without any vibrato and then start an upward vibrato. Apart from the effect on the pitch this also inhibits the forward sense of phrasing. Instead start the note at the top of the pitch (in tune with the accompaniment) and vibrate downwards"

Joe B> I don't agree wht that either. For one, I'm trying to grasp this "frward sense of phrasing that this intonation issues inhibits" and two, The recording of Galway on that link proves that a person can start with core in tune and get away with vibrating above the pitch.

What I find interesting is the various recordings of players. Unfortunately this Dwyer isn't there.....yet. Personally, not to criticize, I never cared for that Boston intonation.

Bilbo,

It's a tongue-in-cheek answer based on the banter that goes on about intonation amongst orchestra members.

I didn't find the assessment of the recordings to be all that accurate. The description doesn't always match what was heard. Vibrato is a form of color. You simply need to control it like any other color, WITH VARIATION. Unfortunately there is way too much vibrato out there that is the same kind all the time. You turn it on or turn it off. HUGE pet peeve of mine.

The other half of that coin is...add more vibrato if your tone is suffering. A little vibrato cures a lot of ills.

Good vibrato is an outgrowth of good musicality. The two go hand in hand.

Joe B

right your are Joe,,,you should read what Marcel Moyse said about excessive vibrato..I agree with Joe, constant vibrato is tiring to listen to, I am always impressed with what one can do with a straight tone...

Again, Joe. "What I find interesting is the various recordings of players. "
I find comparing their vibratos intresting. I don't find the assessments interesting however.


"The other half of that coin is...add more vibrato if your tone is suffering. A little vibrato cures a lot of ills."

Actually, when I hear a bad tone being hidden by a little vibrato, I STILL hear the bad tone being hidden by a little vibrato. The vibrato to my mind is curing nothing. It only adds an element like as in the SNL skit about more cowbell to the "Don't fear the Reaper" song.

"Ultimately the use of vibrato is an element of artistry and can be varied to color the music."
This is true as far as I am concerned.
Vibrato in music is another area where good taste matters. I find it interesting that we teach it as we teach scales. That is generally without the musicality or art.

"Students need to practice with a metronome to first be sure the pulsing is regular. Start practicing at the speed that seems most comfortable and begin to move the metronome toward the range of 84-96 for four pulses....Once control is reached in this tempo range practice setting the metronome on successive speeds from very slow to very fast. Fit an even number of pulses to the beat, from six or even seven for a slow beat to two for a fast one. Then experiment to see whether you can fit two different numbers of pulses into a specific beat. For example put the metronome on 60 and practice both five pulses to the beat and six pulses to the beat."

I understand the rationale of teaching in this manner in so much as the student can find an even pulse with proper depth. They find the muscles that need to be used but at what point does the student turn this metronomic machine into something that actually enhances the music?

Again fromm that page....
"Above all develop a singing vibrato that is incorporated into your basic sound and does not draw attention to itself."

The standard cliche arguments about vibrato issues can always be cited. We too often use it too deep, or too fast and too continuously. We shouldn't forget to mention the nanny-goat vibrato while we are at it or that we sholdn't use on the runs...... We can also interject that vibrato is one area where current trends and fashions abound. I think that many of the players of today are slowing the speed a bit from the 60s style vibrato.

So, do you use vibrato when playing Baroque music?

Again, Joe. "What I find interesting is the various recordings of players. " I find comparing their vibratos intresting. I don't find the assessments interesting however.

That's because we look at things differently. I have to consider assessments against actual phenomenon. Considering how various people perceive things tonally is part of my job. That two people can critically observe the same phenomenon with opposing conclusions is interesting.

The process of learning vibrato is often one that looses sight of the forest for the trees. One goes through exercises to learn to control and develop control over this color. Unfortunately the process eats up the musicality and all we are often left with in terms of vibrato is merely the process. The technique to develop and control vibrato often becomes the end and the means. In other words, the techniques to learn vibrato are implemented correctly to learn to control vibrato. The application of it though is seldom taught.

So, do you use vibrato when playing Baroque music?

Oh Puh-leeze!!! do you use a baroque flute to play baroque music?

if it ain't baroque don't fix it! (sorry I couldn't resist...)

Joe B

"Oh Puh-leeze!!! do you use a baroque flute to play baroque music? "

Well....yes. Actually it's a reproduction of a Friedric Kirst flute made by Bigio.
Does that count?


<Added>



"That's because we look at things differently. I have to consider assessments against actual phenomenon."

Maybe because as a teacher I have to listen to the actual phenomena and make my own assessments to resolve the issues. So, sometimes, I avoid having the thought processes polluted by the external assessments.

"That two people can critically observe the same phenomenon with opposing conclusions is interesting. " This is a point that police are fairly well trained in. Rearding the witnesses and how they can report different and often conflicting facts.

I don't think that we are all that far apart on our thinking but disagreeing on the fine points can be fun at times.

Well....yes. Actually it's a reproduction of a Friedric Kirst flute made by Bigio. Does that count?

Well yes absolutely. That is the answer I was hoping for from a purist. I like purists!

Some of my favorite recordings of baroque music are those played on original period instrument reproductions.

But yes and no, I have used vibrato on baroque performances. Depends on what type of flute I'm playing and the venue..

Speaking of vibrato yes or no and the instrument, there's a recording of the Pines of Rome where the clarinet player adds a little vibrato to the sustained note in the big solo. There are purists who condemned that recording because a clarinet is not "supposed " to use vibrato. I thought it was quite beautiful and appropriate.

But only because it was done musically. That's my whole point.

Joe B

I feel like I meddle in a battle of giants. Sorry for that
A bad vibrato like the one I had is worst than no vibrato at all. Time will come when the student can develop a correct vibrato (or so I hope)and use it only when the piece calls for it.

Well!!!!.
Someone should shoot that clarinettist. Was he named Phil. McC.? (just Kidding) One of the local Clarinettists played a lot in an old BurlyQ (for some of the real giants in the industry, I might add \B-) He had a very unique vibrato. Probably had a nice slow oscillation up and down a full half step in width and tuning to it was like trying to jump on a moving merry-go-round.
But I digress...

A bad vibrato is Like ketchup...
Some people use it on everything.
My wife who is half italian cringes at the mention that in my youth, my mother would serve elbows and ketchup for lunch. Then, I proceed to tell her that I was a connoisseur of canned spaghetti (Chef Boy-ar-dee_ and the same company's outstanding boxed pizza kit.) and she gags.

For what its worth,

Patrick puts Ketchup on Pizza.

Joe B

what about chocolate ice cream?

Chocolate Ice cream on Pizza?

or

Ketchup on Chocolate Ice Cream?

or both on Pizza?

Joe B