It looks like all this scientific information should be more than enough to settle this issue for ever...

Probably it will not, as we like to believe in things that we love to believe.

im still going to say my other piece because its what i believe, its what many others believe, and others are still going to believe it.

gold's atomic makeup is very different than that of silver. because of that, it has a different density. it vibrates at a different speed, just like the slightest change in wavelength can cause different colors, even a different type of radiation. yes, this is even in the smallest amount. this is the difference between UV light and purple light. same concept, except applied to metals. this, in essence, would cause a warmer sound on the flute. even the smallest vibration differences can cause a world of difference when applied to sound.

now my opinion: an all gold flute is great for solo work, but seems too dull and is lost too easily when placed in an orchestral setting. i can tell the difference between gold and silver, even in the hands of an accomplished musician. many people can, whether they admit it or not.

Hi Mbrowne 1229!

You are right concerning beliefs. No doubt that you will believe it and others will continue to believe. This is what I said in my previous post.

There is no way around this and in last instance everybody has the right to believe whatever he /she wants.

Please do not consider the following lines as ironic or aggressive in any way:

The arguments you give are, however, not scientifically solid. But I do not think this might be important and I would rather not enter in details, as I prefer to avoid discussions on this level (of beliefs).

If you can tell the difference between gold and silver instruments it could be a special gift or talent you may have and this is fine. In fact, many people are convinced of the same thing although it cannot be measured by our present scientific methods and so this cannot be confirmed scientifically. But neither can it be disproved, (one basic postulate of scientific research, as it is impossible to check every possibility when they are infinite in practice)

This kind of assessments is also present in other areas; for example, the case of homeopathy comes to my mind. Today it is not possible to prove that homeopathy does not work (or that it does work) The big mystery with this medical treatment is that the extreme dilutions of the active principles in the medicament solution make it almost impossible to have just one single molecule of the active product in the solution, unless you are very lucky and the dose you receive contains "the prize" (one active molecule at least).

There are theories to explain its supposed effectiveness, but these theories cannot be proved or even evaluated as they are based on principles that are not accepted by our present physics (such as the "memory of the water" and others).

The interesting thing is, that in spite of its clear lack of physical foundations, homeopathy is part of the standard modern medicine and is widely used and also accepted in general.

It could be that this controversy about metals and their possible effect in the quality of the sound emitted could have some explication.

But if there is one, nowadays it is beyond the postulates of the physics of matter as we accept it and cannot be explained as simply as you did in your post.

Thank you so much, mbrowne and jose_luis for your feedback.

Although jose_luis presents an argument beyond my technical knowledge of flutes, I have to agree with mbrowne:

There is, definitely, a difference in the sound between gold and silver flutes. On this matter, there should be no argument.

IMO, gold is more suitable for: solo recitals, chamber music recitals, flute and piano, etc. The "mellowness" of gold will provide a different sound than silver. In recordings, this is a moot point, in that microphones take over.

IMO, silver/platinum/titanium is more suited for orchestral playing, in that it has more projection and has a "sharper, edgy" tone, which symphony players need, in order to be "heard" above some 117 other musicians.

jose-luis: I'm significantly impressed with your remarkable feed-back. I really was NOT taking sides, by the way --- just giving you (both) my opinion on the matter.

Best regards: Jim

The sound we hear comes from a vibrating AIR column. It has been proved that the contribution of sound from the minute amplitude of the vibrating metal is negligible, a very, very tiny fraction of what we hear. Sorry, I've forgotten the actual decibel difference.

You may have missed me posting it, but that figure is @ 0.1% is the sound attributed to tube vibration. (inaudible at best)

Joe B

So, having read all this:

--what can we as flute players do to help assure that we can get a silver head that plays as good as a gold/platinum riser one? As I felt I had a very close relationship while dealing with my headjoint maker, I am surprised that he would have cut them differently just to up-sale...and the fact that he thought I would like one of the silver ones better, he kept telling me to give it some more time and I would like it better. But, I always came back to the gold riser.

--Also, have we then established that the 'feel' is different? I keep reading that. Is that something that we can say is a fact...now having established that the sound is not???

--does this also mean that there is no need for even a solid silver head? Could we all just play on under $1000 flutes that are silver plated and sound just the same??? Assuming they are in as good of condition as our own personal choices (leak wise)???

--Also, this comment will get several responses...probably crazy...but WHY did you personally spend all that money on your flute???

I really am trying hard to be the best flute teacher I can, and part of that means helping them get the proper tool in their hands. So, thank you all for this great advice...I find it very interesting that people dream of gold and platinum, but it really means nothing!

Sara

1 - Basically the deal is to get one that is handmade. Landell, for instance, makes all of his headjoints the same from a construction standpoint. Many others do as well. Most of the mainstream manufacturers, though, cut corners on the midrange headjoints, thereby creating the illusion that that $20,000 gold flute is somehow superior. It's not. The headjoint is just made better and paired with the super-expensive model.

2 - Landell has a link on his site showing actual computer analysis of how silver and titanium are different in headjoints - in the sound that they produce and how quickly they respond(titanium is faster to respond but not quite as loud - tonally they are very similar) The metal that the headjoint does seem to make a difference in how it plays, but it's really like asking which shade of off-white paint do you want to paint your bathroom. Coloration and playability at best - essentially coloration/effects instead of real fundamental differences. That is, assuming the same craftsmanship went into the headjoints..

3 - There is a need for a *handmade* headjoint once you start to get to a high level of proficiency. This means silver unfortunately. But you could also make a handmade headjoint out of glass, ceramic, or whatever else. Of course, silver and gold are easy to machine and form, so they are favored currently and are what's often offered. So you're kind of stuck with paying for it.

4 - Mostly people buy flutes because they get a package deal - the headjoint and the body. Yamaha, for instance, makes 3-4 levels of headjoints and them put them on their higher levels as the headjoint gets better. This reinforces the marketing illusion. Yet, the mechanical difference between a 400 and an 800 series flute as far as keys and such goes is essentially nil. It's all the headjoint.(And a lot of players, like myself, have a less expensive flute with a professional headjoint. In my case, it's a Yamaha 500 series(now equivalent to a 684HHV, IIRC) and a handmade headjoint in a specific cut that I bought separately at the time for $650(20 years ago almost - a lot of money).

P.S. I can put that handmade headjoint on my ancient student Gemeinhardt and get 80% of the sound out of it.(would be 95%+, but it's a terribly poor condition flute by now that's far beyond an overhauling even)