To properly address Pletko and flutist06's replies ---- you might want to take a look at the LATEST posts, which address auditions.

No, they're not old --- they were just posted (Dec 7th).

This was not my post ---- it comes from someone who is currently asking for advice.

You might also want to read Lera's comments, in reply to my post.

I think she sums it up, best.

And, no, I'm not "re-hashing" an "old" (outdated and with issues not addressed) post --- I'm providing current comments, which are not mine. They come from Mrs Dwyer and Jeanne Baxtresser.

My G-d --- is there no end to this nonsense?

Jim

<Added>

ADDED:

From a forum member:

"I think it's okay to bring up a topic that has been brought up before if you have a new view on it or something new to share. I personally think that at least this time Jim had something good to share with the forum, something that might not have been said before. and just because someone didn't ask specifically doesn't mean that it might not affect their thinking about things like that in the future. I know I will keep this post in mind when thinking about auditions in the future. Just because someone is not specifically asking for information doesn't mean it should never be shared or it will never be used."

Thank you, Lera --- well said. Regards, Jim


<Added>

ADDED

SORRY --- I meant "thank you, Flauta".

To properly address Pletko and flutist06's replies ---- you might want to take a look at the LATEST posts, which address auditions. No, they're not old --- they were just posted (Dec 7th).

No one said that it was an topic that had already been covered to its fullest extent, or that it was inappropriate to post this thread because it was about auditions. We said it was inappropriate (and horribly condescending) for you to post this thread completely unsolicited, as if your points were the be-all-and-end-all. There's a big difference there that you seem to be choosing not to see.

This was not my post ---- it comes from someone who is currently asking for advice.

And that's fine. My question is why you're choosing to be combative in this thread rather than help someone else in another. I think that choice shows a lot about you, Jim.

You might also want to read Lera's comments, in reply to my post. I think she sums it up, best.

Can I assume you mean Flauta's response? If so, it's not surprising that you think she sums it up best given that she's the only one who seems to have wholely supported your thread.

And, no, I'm not "re-hashing" an "old" (outdated and with issues not addressed) post --- I'm providing current comments, which are not mine. They come from Mrs Dwyer and Jeanne Baxtresser.

And that's a major problem in itself. It's not your job to relay messages supposedly received from Ms. Baxtresser or Ms. Dwyer. Form your own opinions and share them, or keep to yourself. It doesn't speak strongly for you as a source of information that you can't even form (and then share) your own ideas. Leave it to Ms. Baxtresser and Ms. Dwyer to share their ideas with us if they want to.

My G-d --- is there no end to this nonsense? Jim

As long as you choose to keep restarting these threads (so basically, as long as you're a member here), I foresee no end to it. It's interesting that after complaining so thoroughly about how unfriendly this forum is, you choose to make the same "mistaken" choices over and over again, and rehash old disagreements.

flutist06:

The only comments I orginally made came from Ms Baxtresser and Mrs Dwyer.

I thought that would provide help and inspiration to those whom are facing auditions. I never put my "two cents" worth in.

As usual, your comments are the ones condescending and out of place.

I passed the "peace-pipe" with Micron and he and I are now conversant, as well as Joe, Patrick and the others.

It is you, who continue to be the problem

I could say that "there are four seasons" in Chicago --- and just to contradict me --- you'd say: "NO, there is one".

My post had to do with auditions. YES, there are earlier posts --- but I felt that I was adding "new" information that might help others.

You, obviously, do not see it this way.

And the only thing I was adding were the words of Jeanne Baxtresser and Doriot Dwyer.

Yet, you're still roasting my feet.

IS there anything --- anything --- I can say that will not inspire you to provide a nasty, confrontational comment.

The worm turns. I think it is YOU who are the problem, not I.

I don't care "how old" or how many times a post has been said: IF I can shed new light on an old thread, then I'm going to do so, despite your nasty remarks.

You need to get your medicine-dosage increased, so that you can stop authoring this hate mail to me.

Why don't you do us BOTH a favor: quit responding to my posts --- and let the other members of the forum decide whether or not I'm providing B.S. info --- because that's only your opinion.

I want you to leave me alone.

Jim

<Added>

ADDED:

Did you get the picture?

Leave me and my posts alone. You don't like them? Then, don't read them. Wasn't that simple?

And do NOT reply to them. Your nasty comments are out there for everyone to see.

It will SOON become apparent to "everyone" that YOU are the trouble-maker --- not I.

My "Auditions" post was responsible and well-presented.

As far as Mrs Dwyer and Ms Baxtresser "jumping in" --- you can forget it. They're NOT interested in reading hate mail.

My quotes were directly from Mrs Dwyer and Ms Baxtresser. IF you have an issue with that ---- take it up with them.

Not me --- nor the members of the forum.

I do believe that the purpose of this forum is to share knowledge...to ask questions and perhaps have them answered as well, but to share knowledge would be the more important aspect. I also believe that Jim was well within his rights to share information from a valuable source, yes even unsolicited. The fact that he did not think of this advice by himself does not in any way devalue the advice itself and has nothing to do with Jim's character. He is making use of opportunities he's had in the past and he is trying to use the knoweldge he's gained from the likes of baxstresser to potentially help other members on the forum. And it is clear that auditioning is an ever present aspect of flute playing...so if instead of immediately judging why dont we immediately contemplate the content of the post regardless of where it is presented? If we are not able to share information with each other what is the point of this entire forum? Why does it matter if the opinion is unsolicited if it is advice/opinion on a matter that is ALWAYS current? even if it wasnt always current...if someone has an idea that they want to share or a piece of information that they suddenly came across...wouldn't it benefit all of us if we knew about it and could have it in our minds?
I came to this forum to hear what people had to say about the flute. Just because no one asked for a certain topic doesn't mean that it should be disregarded. It could contain valuable information that could change the way you think about thigns even though you hadn't thought about asking for it. One of the good things about bringing groups of people together like this is that you have the opportunity to think about things you wouldn't otherwise and to have access to sources you wouldn't otherwise ie advice from baxstresser coming from a former student.
I'm not trying to be combatant or rude, but i just had to get that out there.

flutist06: The only comments I orginally made came from Ms Baxtresser and Mrs Dwyer. I thought that would provide help and inspiration to those whom are facing auditions. I never put my "two cents" worth in.

Exactly. Stop trying to hide behind others. I have serious doubts as to whether you've ever spoken with (much less met) any of the performers you claim to have. That being said, why not give us YOUR opinion? Are you afraid it would be shot down, or do you just not have one? Either way, it doesn't speak strongly of your information that you do not even have the guts to write as yourself.

As usual, your comments are the ones condescending and out of place.

Condescending, yes. Out of place, no. I will freely admit that I have little respect for you or your posts. However, when you reopen a conversation for no real reason other than an apparent attempt to discredit me and others, I'm certainly going to respond.

I passed the "peace-pipe" with Micron and he and I are now conversant, as well as Joe, Patrick and the others.

That's fine. It has nothing to do with the topic at hand, however. I do seem to remember several recent instances in which Micron and others have shared similar sentiments to mine.

It is you, who continue to be the problem

Certainly a problem to you because I'm not afraid to call you on the bull you're spouting all over the board. I can understand why you would consider me a problem since I'm ruining your fun, but that's a subjective thing....Purely your trollish opinion.

I could say that "there are four seasons" in Chicago --- and just to contradict me --- you'd say: "NO, there is one".

No, unfortunately, that's not at all how it would happen. You'd claim that there were four seasons in Chicago, I'd agree, and then you'd attack me and others anyway. Thanks for trying to put words in my mouth, though.

My post had to do with auditions. YES, there are earlier posts --- but I felt that I was adding "new" information that might help others. You, obviously, do not see it this way.

Clearly.

And the only thing I was adding were the words of Jeanne Baxtresser and Doriot Dwyer. Yet, you're still roasting my feet.

"Roasting your feet," eh? An interesting image, if not a particularly meaningful one.

IS there anything --- anything --- I can say that will not inspire you to provide a nasty, confrontational comment.

Absolutely. Factual information, presented at the appropriate time, and in a respectful manner will not require a comment from me. Opinions presented as facts, jabs at other members, malconceived opinions and other similar items will, however.

The worm turns. I think it is YOU who are the problem, not I.

Of course you think I'm a problem....However, that does not make it true. Your history here is covered with attempts to destabilize the board, while my history is full of helpful comments and attempts to point out your trolling. I doubt the admins would share your views.

I don't care "how old" or how many times a post has been said: IF I can shed new light on an old thread, then I'm going to do so, despite your nasty remarks.

And there's nothing wrong with that, so long as your ideas are presented respectfully and at an appropriate time. You, however, seem to have major issues recognizing these circumstances.

You need to get your medicine-dosage increased, so that you can stop authoring this hate mail to me.

Ahh...Back to the old defense of insulting others rather than actually defending, yourself, huh? As for medication, I'd say you need a nice big bottle of sedatives, and a good place to sleep off your trollishness.

Why don't you do us BOTH a favor: quit responding to my posts --- and let the other members of the forum decide whether or not I'm providing B.S. info --- because that's only your opinion.

I wish it was only my opinion, but it's not. It's viewpoint shared by many folks on the board, though I am by far the most open about it. As for not responding to your posts, that's not likely to happen. I have no intention of allowing such rubbish to sit on the board for unknowing readers. If you had chosen to to alter the way you were posting during any of your innumerable "second chances," we wouldn't be here right now, but unfortunately, your poor behavior has driven us to the point where it's necessary to monitor anything you post.

I want you to leave me alone. Jim

Just as I and many others want you to leave this board and its members alone. The two are intertwined, and it's up to you to take the first step.

ADDED: Did you get the picture?

The fact that you felt the need to post a combative addendum to your previous post without my even having replied is pretty entertaining. As I've mentioned before, the major members of the board have had the picture for a long time...Time for you to get a copy.

Leave me and my posts alone. You don't like them? Then, don't read them. Wasn't that simple? And do NOT reply to them. Your nasty comments are out there for everyone to see.

You seem to repeat yourself quite a lot, Jim.

It will SOON become apparent to "everyone" that YOU are the trouble-maker --- not I.

I somehow doubt that, Jim. Would you care to elaborate on how you intend to show this, given your history of creating controversy and your persistent desire to insult others?

My "Auditions" post was responsible and well-presented. As far as Mrs Dwyer and Ms Baxtresser "jumping in" --- you can forget it. They're NOT interested in reading hate mail.

Whether or not it's hate mail is entirely dependent upon your point of view. In any case, you really should stop speaking for others, particularly those with whom you have a questionable relationship.

My quotes were directly from Mrs Dwyer and Ms Baxtresser. IF you have an issue with that ---- take it up with them. Not me --- nor the members of the forum.

Jim, you seem to have missed the point of this little debate entirely. I have no issue with what Ms. Baxtresser and Ms. Dwyer may have said (though I do have doubts that they ever said what you're quoting, especially to you). I do, however, take issue with the manner in which you presented "their" ideas. Once again, you seem to be choosing to miss the point.

<Added>

Flauta, no one is "immediately judging" anything Jim says. Our responses are based on 2 months of his behavior, both public and private.

Yes, flutisto6:

You are IMMEDIATELY judging my post(s) (as usual) without first doing your homework, before you put your foot into your big mouth.

So that you and everyone on this forum knows, I got my information about auditions, the subject of this post, directly from Jeanne Baxtresser's home page, and it was copied, verbatim.

http://www.flutecorner.com/famousflutists/jeannebaxtresser.

Next time, do your homework before you make a fool out of yourself. Since when is it necessary for me to offer only MY opinions --- why am I not allowed to cite what (obviously) others have said? Everyone else on this forum takes delight in doing it. How did I become exempt?

I won't even bother to answer any of your other ridiculous remarks above. They're not worthy of my time, nor the members' of this forum's time. It's just garden-variety hate mail.

Why don't you find someone else to bully for awhile, and cut me a little slack. Your only contributions to this forum are to criticize ANY remark I make --- whether I author it, or whether I cite it from a reliable source.

That's apparent to everyone (except you, of course).

Everyone reading this, would appreciate it if you "lay off" --- and why don't you, by the way, author your OWN posts? Why? You don't have any to post? Why am I not surprised.

And, by the way, thank you FLAUTA for your responsible, and worthy-of-reading comments!

Jim

thanks for defending Chris, he always backs up what he says in his always cogent arguments, he does not name drop, (something many in the flute world do) and always welcomes opinions and spirited debate...I would say most of us are like that, we certainly have our opinions, I know I have mine...but we are always civil about it...

Patrick and Alienne:

My ORIGINAL post was civil, well presented --- and intended only to help those facing auditions. That was my only purpose.

And, yes, I did my homework, and the subject was NOT addressed on previous posts --- so it was NOT a "rehashed" post.

Have either of you READ my original post? Or are you simply in bed with "06"?

As far as "hiding" behind anyone --- why on earth would I do that? I was merely quoting Jeanne Baxtresser's opinions on auditions. In fact, to show that I wasn't "making it up", I offered HER web site, wherein SHE said, what I copied, VERBATIM. Did you ever bother to visit it? OF COURSE NOT! You wouldn't dare. You'd make a bigger fool of yourself than you already have.

Other people on this forum have NO TROUBLE "quoting 'this source --- that source'", but If I do it --- I get roasted.

I was trying to assuage the fears of those facing auditions. It's NOT an "old" thread --- it was JUST brought up. Please look at the new threads, would you?

Tired of being stomped on, because I author posts.

I guess the purpose of this forum is to ONLY ask questions --- and PRAY that they weren't posted before. NOT to post something that I think might help those new to the forum.

How stupid I am. I'm supposed to sit quietly by on the sidelines, NEVER post anything --- and ONLY ask questions, which I hope that the "gurus" of this site will answer.

I now realize the purpose of this forum. I never got it before --- but I get it now.

There are those who assume deity when it comes to flute playing --- and I have nothing to author, and had better keep my mouth shut.

Like a child. "Be seen --- not heard".

I get it now.

How ridiculous you all are. I would say that you should be ashamed of yourselves --- but that would be a fatuous gesture, in that you have no shame. You posture yourselves as "know-it-alls", and NEVER allow any of us to input what we "thought" might help others.

Healthy, responsible rebuttals are welcome on any forum. Disrespectful, derogatory, personal attacks only represent YOUR lack of respect and insight (or, is it "in-breeding"?)

Thank you all so much --- for nothing.

You "gurus" are all what I expected you to be.

You actually lived-up to my expectations!

So that you know --- I will CONTINUE to post, when I think it's appropriate. Your "hate mail" rolls off my back like water off a duck's back.

IF you're trying to insult me --- I'm sorry. You failed --- as miserably as you failed to READ MY ORIGINAL POST. Insulting me is impossible. Impossible. I am "insult-proof".

ESPECIALLY when I consider the SOURCE. Get it?

Jim.


<Added>

ADDED:

For the uninformed, here is my original post:

"I know the subject was covered before, in previous threads --but they were too old for me to reply to, so thought I might bring it up, briefly."

{Is there anything wrong with THAT statement?}

"Whether you're auditioning for high-school band or orchestra, or far beyond --- never be afraid of auditions."

{Anything WRONG, here?}

"A very wise musician once told me (because I was nervous about an up-coming audition)":

"Never be afraid of auditions. Just be yourself. Play from your heart. Pretend that you're playing for yourself. Your voice will shine through. And who cares if you don't "win" that audition --- you just might, the next. Don't be nervous. Flute playing is all about relaxing and enjoying yourself."

{Anything wrong with THAT statement? It's based upon common sense --- and something I would impart to anyone.}

"I recall this in high-school years, where other flutists were placed before me, even though I knew that I was better than they. It was nothing more than "high-school politics", at its worst. All that mattered, was that I knew that I was better."

{Anything wrong with THAT statement? It's based upon personal experience.}

"As I've said before: just be the best you can be. The rest will take care of itself. Practice, practice, practice --- and you'll get to where you want to be."

{Anything WRONG with THAT statement?}

Best regards, Jim

[-] Re: Auditions ..... 18:43 on Sunday, December 02, 2007 0 votes

JimMillen
(231 points)
Owner Edit

I forgot the "addendum": here are the words of Jeanne Baxtresser, regarding "auditions":

J.B.- "In my last year at Julliard I thought, “I’d better take an audition.” I’d been working on orchestral repertoire all along. I didn’t mention to Julius Baker that I was going to do it. I made a reservation and went up to Montreal which had a first flute opening and took that audition. I was totally free, totally relaxed, I had no expectation of getting the job, it was the furthest thing from my mind—this was part of my education, I thought. I got the job. That’s when the hard work began—where I really started to educate myself. Those were tremendous learning years for me. The orchestra became my teacher, my own ear became my guide."

Hope this helps those looking for auditions. Jim

NOW, since others on this forum love to quote from text-books on "this subject, that subject" --- or refer people to links --- then, just WHERE have I errored? Tell me WHERE?

I don't think you can.

I think (as someone suggested), you're a bunch of clones, or people who assume different identities so that they can "agree" with each other --- just to "put me down".

FLUTIST OR NOT A FLUTIST --- anyone who READS my "Auditions" post would understand it, respect it and appreciate it.

But NOT you! It's NOT what I say that you hate --- it's me --- and anything that I say, whether it's worthy of merit or not.

THAT is VERY clear to me.

And, in closing, I wonder how many "gurus" of this forum --- especially "06", actually PLAY the flute, as opposed to going to "this site --- that site", "this text-book, that text-book"?????

Do you wan't a CHALLENGE? I LOVE it. I'll get the technology in place to perform audio/video clips of my playing --- and I want the "gurus" to DO THE SAME --- at the same time !!!

NOW, we'll see who knows HOW TO PLAY THE FLUTE. Got it?

Take me up on it --- I LOVE it. Can you? I don't think so.

And, guess who else doesn't ---- YOU.

Jim

---- and I now challenge you. PLAY THE G-D FLUTE ---- or SHUT UP|!

Jim

What is it like in your world?

You are confused, Alienne:

I was quoting two different sources.

The first source came from the words of Doriot Dwyer. I grew up in Boston and used to attend BSO concerts. And, yes, I talked to Mrs Dwyer about "auditions" --- and she told me what you read. (IF you read it).

Others on this forum have NO PROBLEM with quoting from text-books, stuff they get off the Internet, etc. BUT, when I do it -- I'm going to catch hell. Excuse me?

IF you read, the 2nd part of my post it is a direct transliteration of just what Jeanne Baxtresser said about auditions. Again, WHY am I not allowed to "quote" from a reliable source. All of the "mechanics" of this forum do.

Why argue with me? I'd love to be a fly on the wall when you tell Ms Baxtresser that "she's full of ($^%%#^$%).

Go ahead --- do it.

I never came onto this forum looking for trouble. I think that my post "Auditions" was intended to inspire and give hope to those facing auditions. Thus, I quoted two sources.

Their comments are based upon common sense. IF I were a teacher --- those are the exact words I would use.

I'm very sorry you do not appreciate my "Auditions" post. It is not presented as a dictum --- it is not an "old" rehash --- it was, in fact RECENTLY authored by someone else whom I thought I could help.

I'm very sorry you have taken a contradictory position to my post --- I really expected better of you.

You know what? In order to accommodate you and the other members of the forum -- I will no longer post. I'll just ask questions, and hope that the "gurus" will answer.

Never judge a person, until you put yourself into (his or her) shoes.

I'm doing the best I can. I'm trying to "get with the program" === but I'm new, and have much to learn.

I don't think anything is more fairly said than that. Is there any way that we can "agree to agree"? Or, are you that closed-minded that you don't understand what another person is going through? Again, of all people, I expected better of you.


Regards, Jim

Alienne:

O.K. You're right.

I "thought" I did my homework and researched previous posts to make sure I wasn't being "redundant".

I found no comments from either Mrs Dwyer nor Ms Baxtresser --- I really thought that (their) comments addressed the heart of the matter.

If you want to find fault with someone "who didn't do their homework" --- then take issue with the Person(s) who RECENTLY posted a question on auditions. Not with me. I was simply replying.

But, you're right. It should never have been presented as a post. I should have just replied.

I'll be very careful in the future NOT to post anything, unless I'm very sure that it is not a "rehash".

I'm trying my best to fit into this forum --- and still have (apparently) much to learn.

I can't disagree with anything you said --- but could you cut me a little slack, and just politely tell me "the errors" of my ways, without the nasty remarks?

I'm human and I do have feelings. Again, I'm just trying to "fit into" this forum.

I will take your advice and do as I'm told.

But, just once in awhile, give me a little lattitude, would you? And forgive someone who is new and trying to fit in.

Regards, Jim

Alienne: O.K. You're right.

Yes, at least in part, she is. However, you "trying too hard" is not the only problem most of us have with you.

I "thought" I did my homework and researched previous posts to make sure I wasn't being "redundant".

So what are those quotations supposed to signify? You use them incessantly and in the most inappropriate places. Now, without getting into correcting your grammar any further, how is it possible that you thought you did your homework on what is and isn't redundant when you yourself stated that you'd found older threads on the same topic? Then there's also the issue that you used the SAME QUOTES in at least 2 or three other threads. Even if it was new information for the given topic, it certainly wasn't new information for the board. I sense some major contradictions here.

If you want to find fault with someone "who didn't do their homework" --- then take issue with the Person(s) who RECENTLY posted a question on auditions. Not with me. I was simply replying.

As we've made clear OVER AND OVER AND OVER, Jim, it's not the fact that you didn't do your homework that most irks us. It's the manner in which you present "your" advice/information. Stop trying to escape the root of the problem by attempting to distract us from the real issue here.

But, you're right. It should never have been presented as a post. I should have just replied.

Yes, you should have. I find it interesting that you have not yet responded to the most recent thread about auditions, despite the fact that you clearly acknowledge its existence. It says quite a lot about your character that you are willing to spend all your energy here, fighting, than helping others.

I'll be very careful in the future NOT to post anything, unless I'm very sure that it is not a "rehash".

You'd probably be better off not posting anything, regardless of whether you consider it a rehash or not.

I'm trying my best to fit into this forum --- and still have (apparently) much to learn.

Apparently. I find it almost laughable that you consider this "trying to fit in." Your behaviour has been atrocious both here and in the past, despite untold numbers of warnings, apologies, and promises to do better. You've had your chance to fit in, and failed miserably. At this point, you're merely trying to stir up trouble as much as possible.

I can't disagree with anything you said --- but could you cut me a little slack, and just politely tell me "the errors" of my ways, without the nasty remarks?

Frankly, Jim, you have not earned the right to slack, nor polite comments. We've given you far more chances than you deserve, and each and every time you go right back to your old tricks. We're tired of it.

I'm human and I do have feelings. Again, I'm just trying to "fit into" this forum.

Human you may be, but I doubt the sincerity of your "feelings." If you really cared, you'd shape up, or get off the forum. Since you've done neither, I can only assume that once again you're attempting to milk the members of this forum for pity.

I will take your advice and do as I'm told.

Unlikely, given your history.

But, just once in awhile, give me a little lattitude, would you? And forgive someone who is new and trying to fit in. Regards, Jim

After 2 months, you're no longer new, and you've either fit in, or you haven't. You clearly have not, and your behavior has not earned you the right to any latitude. Stop begging for pity....We can all see through that little act.

flutist06:

Those are rather unkind remarks against someone who admits frailties, and is trying to find a way to fit into the forum.

I will do as I'm told --- I will not post anymore, I'll only reply IF I think I can help, and will do whatever it takes to "forgive" my past sins. I will, further, only ask questions, which I depend upon you and other members of the forum to address.

I don't know that I can offer any more than this. I don't know what I can say that would be more fair than that.

Yes, I agree. You're right. I've "said this, said that" --- then apologized. I now realize how ridiculous this was. My posts, comments and replies have no place in this forum.

I respect the fact that most of you have been on this forum far longer than I. I also know that I've been "duped" into believing "this or that" --- from people is whose judgment I trusted.

I never came to this forum to disrupt it. I never came here to pontificate. I thought I was helping.

I'm still learning how to navigate this site with the correct protocol --- and it is apparent to me that I've gone about it the wrong way.

This is not an apology. It's called facing reality.

I now realize the errors of my ways --- and it is my only hope that I can be accepted as a member.

That's the only thing I'm asking for. And, I'll do whatever the members ask.

flutist06: Those are rather unkind remarks against someone who admits frailties, and is trying to find a way to fit into the forum.

I'd say it's far more realistic than unkind. I've given you forgiveness, compassion, pity, and the like before, and none of it made the slightest difference, so I'm through with that little farce. I have no intention of playing your games anymore.

I will do as I'm told --- I will not post anymore, I'll only reply IF I think I can help, and will do whatever it takes to "forgive" my past sins. I will, further, only ask questions, which I depend upon you and other members of the forum to address.

We've seen similar promises before. I see no reason to believe that this time will be any different.

I don't know that I can offer any more than this. I don't know what I can say that would be more fair than that.

You could offer to leave the forum. That would certainly solve our problems with you.

Yes, I agree. You're right. I've "said this, said that" --- then apologized. I now realize how ridiculous this was. My posts, comments and replies have no place in this forum.

Since you've decided that your writings have no place here and stated that you have no intention to continue them, there's really no reason for you to be a registered member. As a sign of your sincerity, I suggest that you close your account.

I respect the fact that most of you have been on this forum far longer than I. I also know that I've been "duped" into believing "this or that" --- from people is whose judgment I trusted.

Your newness and propensity for misinformation is not the major point here. How long you've been on the forum doesn't count for anything when it comes to earning respect, nor does having some mistaken information that you regard to be true. However, when you refuse to accept that others might have better information than you, and attack them on a personal level, you lose any right to respect you might have had. You've ventured too far down that childish road for us to believe you're turning back now.

I never came to this forum to disrupt it. I never came here to pontificate. I thought I was helping.

You thought you were helping by repeatedly insulting other members, arguing endlessly, and generally creating as much chaos as you could? If that's the case, then we don't need any of your help here.

I'm still learning how to navigate this site with the correct protocol --- and it is apparent to me that I've gone about it the wrong way.

After two months, and a great deal of interaction with myself and the others, you should have at least grasped the basics. You've failed to do so, despite outright attempts to help you fit in. I no longer accept this excuse.

This is not an apology. It's called facing reality.

Well that's something you certainly need to do. If you're really facing reality, perhaps you should face the reality that you've lost any real chance of being accepted here, and move on, finally leaving this group in peace.

I now realize the errors of my ways --- and it is my only hope that I can be accepted as a member. That's the only thing I'm asking for. And, I'll do whatever the members ask.

I truly doubt that you'll do as the members here ask. I remember you saying that you'd leave if Kara asked you to. She did, and yet you're still here. As I remember it, you were gone no more than 2 days before you came back, disrupting the forum as you always did.

Well, I'm not going to post anymore. So that's over.

I'll only ask questions and will be sure to check previous threads, first.

As far as leaving, no. It's my favorite forum, so I'm just going to sit on the sidelines and read and learn, which is why I came here and is what I should only have done in the first place.

Jim