Thank you, Grieg-Bizet, for an excellent point.

I totally agree. It is, after all, a solo --- and the conductor should "step in" after the opening passage.

Well done. I hadn't thought of that.

Regards, Jim

Thanks to both Tim and Jim. I'm sorry, Tim, that I couldn't have been of any real help, but I must make that point aware to other "would-be" conductors. The opening is all good and well slow, but I feel that there should be a sort of underlying "urgent dreaminess" about it (if that makes any sense). In other words, the soloist should add some "erotica" to the piece, almost to seem as if he/she is improvising the solo.

Again, Grieg-Bizet, well said.

Again, to repeat, the "Prelude" is, after all, a solo piece --- and the "artistic license" belongs to the soloist --- not the conductor.

Tim needs to have a serious conversation about this with his conductor. It has been my finding, and IMO, that conductors rarely interfere with a "soloist's" interpretation. Why Tim's is, I have no idea.

Debussy would not have approved of this. Tim's conductor needs to "get with the program" and recognize that this is a flute solo. He can then, take over after that, regarding tempo, et al.

In closing, once again, just listen to Jeanne Baxtresser's haunting and lovely interpretation by going to:
http://flutecorner.com/famousflutists
then scroll down to Jeanne Baxtresser's home page; then, scroll down to "Discography" and listen to the 2nd entry, which is the "Prelude".

I would challenge anyone to tell me that "another flutist" jumped in to "help" or "finish" the passage. Ms Baxtresser's tone, sonority, vibrato and unique style of playing would be almost impossible to emulate by a "2nd" flutist. And --- you can "hear" where she breathes --- and that might help.

Thanks.

Regards, Jim

[JimMillen] I'm not saying the piece can't/or is not being accomplished, by the presence of two flutes.

Neither am I. I meant the "two flutes trick" in general.

My question would be: why on earth is your "conductor" changing Debussy's orginal tempo?

I keep forgetting to look at my score (I'm not home just now). Does Claude supply a metronome marking? If not, I don't see how the piece can have a precise "original" tempo. In this case it should be the conductor's responsibility to beat a tempo that works well with the piece and the capabilities of the players at hand (reasonably within the delimitations of moderato or whatever Debussy wrote at the top of the page). If, on the other hand, Debussy did supply a metronome marking, it's the conductor's responsibility to beat that tempo as well as he can unless he has a strong objective reason to believe the marking is erroneous.

Ms Baxtresser's tone, sonority, vibrato and unique style of playing would be almost impossible to emulate by a "2nd" flutist.

If she were dovetailing another flautist, it would be her responsibility to try to match his tone, etc.

[Grieg-Bizet] The opening of the piece should be "conductor-free" with the soloist choosing the tempo.

This isn't a flute concerto.

Yes, Scotch, you are correct: This isn't a flute concerto. For me, it would seem very unusual with the conductor waving and flailing right from the get-go, but maybe smaller, subtler hand gestures would be best as to not draw attention away from the opening bars.

Thank you, Scotch and Grieg-Bizet.

I stand corrected. I mis-used the word, "solo".

Your points are both valid.

I think, however one thing was misunderstood.

I have a good "flute" ear. I can tell when Rhonda Larson is playing, or Ms Baxtresser, or Mrs Dwyer, or Galway, and on and on. I mean to say---- ususally. Of course, I could easily be fooled by a very accomplished amateur flutist who can emulate (any of the above's) tone and style of playing. And, yes, there are some who can ---- some may well be present on this forum.

I think, however, if you listed to the clip that I sent you to --- you can hear the breathing, etc. Plus, IMO, it would be very difficult to emulate Ms Baxtresser's tone, vibrato, etc. If you'll permit a poor analogy, her "tone, etc", is like a "fingerprint". I don't really think there is another Jeanne Baxtresser. Certainly not someone who can "jump in and finish the last 6 measures or so, while she's on an oxygen mask, trying to recover". Possibly, Tracy Harris. Possibly.

Therefore, I stand confused as to just "how" two flutes could be involved? NOT in the "usual" sense --- because I'm sure it can be done; I refer, specifically to Ms Baxtresser's recording.

I'm not saying it can't be done, nor has it not been done.

I guess what I'm saying is: "You can fool some of the flutists all of the time --- you can fool all of the flutists some of the time --- but you can't fool all of the flutists all of the time."

In closing, I'm confident that "non-flute players in the audience would never "hear" the difference". However, flutists with good ears, would. That's all I'm saying.

Finally, I'd like to remind you of what I said earlier: growing up in Boston, I attended BSO concerts --- and SAW Mrs Dwyer accomplish the entire "Prelude" on her own.

So, I know it can be done. How? That's better left to the "mechanics" on this forum who know better than I. And, threre are a lot of good ones. jButky, Micron .... and more.

Regards .... and thanks for your feed-back!

Jim

what i was trying to play a short part of a flute song in my lesson yesterday i was having a couple of problems trying to do it at the volume i was so my teacher told me to relax, take a nice deep breath and play it quieter the as a played it quieter we gradually got louder and it worked so try that also try puffing all the air out of your lungs before taking a deep breath

For me, it would seem very unusual with the conductor waving and flailing right from the get-go, but maybe smaller, subtler hand gestures would be best as to not draw attention away from the opening bars.

Since I'm not a conductor myself, I'm not an expert at this thing. My impression (based mostly on the orchestra I recently left--as a cellist) is that the conductor would likely set the initial tempo, let the flautist play for awhile, and then cue in the orchestra. My point is simply that in this situation I don't think the soloist and the conductor would be considered collaborators of equal rank as they would be considered were it a concerto.

I checked the score, by the way. The tempo indication is "very moderate" (actually the French equivalent, which I can't reproduce here without diacritical marks). I wonder how "very moderate" is practically different from "moderately moderate", say.

Therefore, I stand confused as to just "how" two flutes could be involved? NOT in the "usual" sense --- because I'm sure it can be done; I refer, specifically to Ms Baxtresser's recording. I'm not saying it can't be done, nor has it not been done.

It may never have occurred to me that it has with this particular piece if someone hadn't stated here that the premiere was performed this way, but the device in general is done all the time (when composers actually call for it).

I guess what I'm saying is: "You can fool some of the flutists all of the time --- you can fool all of the flutists some of the time --- but you can't fool all of the flutists all of the time." In closing, I'm confident that "non-flute players in the audience would never "hear" the difference". However, flutists with good ears, would. That's all I'm saying.

The hope is that flautists wouldn't (or else we'd have to bar their entrance). It just occurred to me, though, that it may make a difference when the flute part is unaccompanied (as it is in this case).

Well for what my opinion is worth...
1) Jim, if you are going to supply a link please supply one that isn't wrong and convoluted.
Like:
http://www.jeannebaxtresser.com/music/collection1.mp3
because it's a nice rendition of the solo.
Then
2) The conductor should allow this solo to be played by the flutist and the conductor should follow the beats to show the others in the orchestra where the meter is in order that they come in correctly after the solo. I think that this is done in a way that the audience isn't even seeing his pattern in front of his torso like some conductors show their group how fast the tempo is before they begin a piece. The operative word is "follow" the soloist and not lead them. Any respectable quality soloist should be able to play this part in one breath and from memory and they should know the interpretation down to the finest subtleties of the rubato. These things should not need to be supplied by the conductor any more than a flutist would need to have a conductor for a tune like Syrinx....as one example.

so,
"
Does anyone have any tips on how I can pull this off? "

Shoot the conductor.
That's how I would do it.

I am curious why nobody has commented on my hint about circular breathing. What is wrong with it?

In any case it should be better than shooting a poor conductor...

I think that because this solo can actually be played in one breath without the need for circular breathing. Achieving this one in one breath is part of a flutist's bag of "tricks". Playing phrases with circular breathing in classical symphony playing isn't generally looked upon as one of the required necessities for flutists....so far. and symphony flutists don't generally believe that the circular breathing produces an evenness of acoustical tone and projection which they require.

As a matter of fact, it would be an enriching experience to give the soloist this artistic license to play this as they see fit. This is one of the pieces where a certain standard of interpretation has been laid down by countless prior performances. So doing it far too slow or too fast would be perceived by the audience as an obvious flaw of the interpretation and having the conductor actually lead the flutist may cause flaws in the beats/tempo as the flutist adjusts between their perception and what the conductor is actually dictating. Of course actually delivering a broadside to him with your 12" guns may not be prudent but it would have been meant as a joke.

That being said, some of these conductors are far from being poor. ;-) At our local univ. one conductor gets paind more than any of the other profs. in any field and this is just for waving his arms wildly about the podium.

<Added>

Observe this:
I found this from "THE" conductor after writing the above. See what he does to follow. He actually only conducts the Orch. later:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=F5A4CkUAazI

<Added>

and in this instance the flutist probably DOES breathe before the last 3 notes but many don't have to.

sometimes you just need to lay down the law. if he has a problem with you breathing right before the last 3 notes, ask him to listen to recordings of the piece, or better yet: play the solo himself! i highly doubt youre superman with lungs of steel. besides, i think a whole breath sounds like youre trying to show off. when i played it, i chose my own tempo because its almsot like a cadenza (ALMOST, OK??? ALMOST) and our conductor told me that its supposed to be about the distant flute, not the person up at the front waving their arms around like theyre drowning. (exact words) maybe you should discuss all options with your director one day before you start rehearsing. it shows him that you take pride in your work and that youre responsible.

good luck!

Thank you, Bilbo, for correcting my link, your remarkable (as usual) input --- and thanks to all of you for your input.

I'm confident that Tim appreciates it, as we all do.

Regards, Jim