I have gotten my nice flutes by selling my hair, thats why I have lost it, at least I like to think that's the reason...

I have new information that may change things. I had her ask the band leader what would be the best type for her and he said intermediate or advanced, and his brands were gemeinhardt, armstrong, and yamaha. He gave me a few local stores that let you try them out and he said for her to try open and closed to see which she liked better.

Are any of the flutes in those ebay links intermediate or advanced? Does anyone else have any they are selling?

Does that change any of the advice already given? (Yes, I am totally clueless when it comes to flutes, I love their sound but that's where my knowledge ends!)

Thanks so much for your help. (BTW, I'm going to get the old one repaired, my youngest son heard that his sister is getting a new one and he said he wants to play the old one, he can start lessons in school next year. I would love to have 3 of my 4 children play that same flute!)

Gemeinhardt and Armstrong make perfectly usable 'band flutes' to learn on. Unfortunately, their 'intermediate' and 'advanced' flutes are simply versions of their student flutes, with added silver, open holes, a B-footjoint, and maybe a fancy case. This would be just like upgrading a 10 year old Honda Civic with a 5 year old Honda Civic, with flashy paint and leather seats. The paint and the leather look nice, but they don't do a thing for gas mileage, passenger space, or engine power.

The Yamaha flute, once you get past the fancied-up student models (300 or 400 series) offers an improvement in the engineering of the headjoint, which is where the sound and responsiveness of the flute is created. (With the assumption that the pads and adjustments are in order.) The Yamaha flutes are very well recommended, because even the student-level flutes can sound outstanding with a pro-level headjoint in them. The tuning/scale of a Gemeinhardt is famously "strange" (to quote a flute-repair and performance friend of mine), and the Armstrong has a very different diameter (creates fitting problems), so these are worse choices to simply put a pro headjoint in.

In a nutshell, no, this doesn't change the advice you already got. Pearl, Jupiter, Azumi, Yamaha, are all good flutes that she will be fine through high school with, and the engineering is good on these flutes in the first place.

As far as the open/closed hole thing goes: Virtually every upgrade-quality flute available new in the US will have open holes. She does not need open holes, at least at his point. Most of us never do. They don't affect the sound of the flute, but they can be used for microtone trills, alternate fingerings in the piccolo register, and some special glissando effects- mostly jazz or 'extended technique' things that she's not likely to see until college. Closed hole flutes ARE available in the really high quality flutes, but mostly by special order or used, since they have a lower resale value. But this also means that a really nice used flute with closed holes can be bought at a discount.

I would be very weary about taking advice from a band director. Your best information will come from someone that specializes in flute, plays the flute for many years at an advanced level or repairs them.

My logic to a lot of flutes are that most step up intermediate models are just glorified student models with some silver content added or holes. I agree whole heartedly with Tibbiecow, open holes are not needed and for the most part they never will be.

Armstrong and Gemeinhardt flutes may hold and be sturdy and all, but for the most part they are harder to get a well focused sound out of because of the headjoint and the mechanism is choppy. When playing anything technical, if the mechanism is choppy or clunky in anyway it makes this much harder.

Now the flute in my auctions are all student flutes. Some may call the Jupiter with the open holes an intermediate flute, but the only difference from the student models are the holes, so I still call it a student flute. You can spend five times as much on a so called intermediate level flute with holes and a B foot or a solid silver head, but when it comes down to it, they will still have the same mechanism and design and will play virtually identical. There is a lot of marketing hype that you have to consider that unfortunately is pushed a lot.

I have heard of students going all the way through college on a Yamaha 200 series student flute before. This is why I choose for the most part not to sell or carry anything but student model flutes and sometimes professional flutes or handmade headjoints. To be the whole "intermediate" or "step up" flute is purely marketing hype.

I hope this helps some and best of luck with finding a flute

After buying one Yamaha 6xx with both features (the B foot forced by the marketing strategy in USA), I suggest you stay away, if you can, from B foots and probably also from open holes.

They are unnecessary for the most part and I consider them to be useless added difficulties.

There could be the resale price issue, yes, particularly if you buy new, as I did. But for used instruments without B foot or with closed holes, this possible reduction in the reselling price was probably effective when you bought the instrument used.

But sometimes teachers (or BDs?) strongly suggest to have the student play with open holes. For example, one of my teachers insisted a lot to have me play with (at least) some holes unplugged, to help me correct allegedly wrong wrist and finger positions. I have to say it was too difficult for me and finally I gave up and plugged the holes again.

You are right about the increasing presence of low Bs in modern music. Were it present, as you say, in only 150 pieces out of how many thousands, it is not something to be neglected. I also think the B foot is here to stay, like we it or not.

Surprisingly there is one low B in Haendel sonata 359 in E minor, in the allegro movement. How it got there is a mystery for me, as I have always thought that the flutes of the XVIII century did not reach that low. But there it is, in urtext and I believe it is not a transcription from another instrument. So probably I was wrong concerning flute rages at that time.

Now, my opinion was based on the low budget allytia posted originally, around 200$, although later she was been told that the child needs an intermediate to advanced instrument.

The budget must of course increase, but I supposed it meant a bigger effort. In such a case, paying for the B foot could be an extra burden and that money could be used in buying a better instrument.

There are also a couple of problems that I do not like in B foots: the venting seems to be poorer and I suspect this causes added resistance (at least in my Yamaha flute) with the Eb2, as I posted recently. Also, the need to manage two rollers instead of just one as with C foots is another added difficulty for me.

The more advanced the student becomes, the easier will it be to deal with these two problems and eventually they will fade away with better playing technique, so they are not really "problems" but as I like to call them, "added (relatively unnecessary)
difficulties". Or so I hope.

Just my opinion, in any case.

Playing or practicing a lot, with open holes, can result in temporary hand pain in a person with arthritis, small hands, short fingers, or any normal hand shape, really, if the hand is forced into an awkward position.
Continued playing with this hand pain can result in a permanent repetitive stress injury.
Some people do just fine with open holes, or an inline G key, but for others the keys will have to be plugged, the G offset or with an extension, etc.

Suzie, you are like the wikipedia of rare flutes!

Do you think there were B foots at the time Haendel wrote his flute sonatas Op 1? (probably around 1711/1712)

Playing or practicing a lot, with open holes, can result in temporary hand pain in a person with arthritis, small hands, short fingers, or any normal hand shape, really, if the hand is forced into an awkward position. Continued playing with this hand pain can result in a permanent repetitive stress injury. Some people do just fine with open holes, or an inline G key, but for others the keys will have to be plugged, the G offset or with an extension, etc.

The offset G is one of the reasons I am looking for a new flute. Since I broke both of my hands. I am having my right index finger going numb on my inline G flute. I tried plugging the G key, but it is driving me crazy. The little plastic plug is distracting me to no end. I also need a foot joint with keys that are closer to the body and smaller. Plus my right index finger is hitting the Bb trill key on some flutes. So I am quite limited on what I can get next.

The lesson here is if you are planning on playing the flute professionally, don't do gymnastics. Fortunately I am not a professional musician.

Suzie,
That footjoint is really neat. Was that flute made for a kid or a person with really small hands?

The thumb port on the lower end of my Yamaha is helping. I also have the wonderful natural ability of having double jointed thumbs. It adds to the excitement of flute playing and the broken hands issue.

I don't have a problem with reaching the G# key. I think that it is just the stretch to the inline G key. I can play the Armstrong 104 that I have laying about with no problem.

When I last played the flute in highschool, my hands had not been broken. I was used to playing the inline G. I can still do it, but it is causing my finger to go numb after a while.

I can't afford a modified headjoint. Or an upright flute.

It seems like certain flute companies are compatable with my hands.

Gemeindhardt is good but I want better key action and a better headjoint.
Armstrong is same as Gemeindhardt.
Haynes is a winner.
Altus is a winner.
Muramatsu works, but I am wondering if I will be struggling with the footjoint again. I love the sound and the key action.

I know how to solve my problem. I just won't play anything lower than D!

Aleianne, that is an idea I might consider.

I still want something nicer than my Yamaha 385. It probably needs cleaning and oiling right now, so it is a little bit of a slug.