ok, i know there is a love them/hate them relationship with these pads and also a "you dont need to spend the money" blah blah blah. i have this repair person who is a very close family friend who, i am taking my flute in for an overhaul next week and had a consultation, offered to install straubinger pads at no additional cost. this guy is trustworthy, dont worry. i take care of my instrument, dont worry. and better yet, i know how to hold my flute, dont worry. im just wondering should i take advantage of this opportunity, what good it will do me, or should i stick to the standard muramatsu pads? if so (on either option), why? i just know these babies cost more, are offered on many american-made flutes (i think only miyazawa has them standard on their flutes, except the basic entry level one).
TELL ME MORE! TELL ME MORE! thanks.

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"(i think only miyazawa has them standard on their flutes...)"

supposed to include "japanese flute" someplace in there.

well, i dont want to say who this dude is online because the "freeness" factor may cause issues i dont want to deal with, but if you want to know who it is i can tell you via private message. otherwise, i can honestly verify that he isnt a newbie, but in fact a very trustworthy person and a highly qualified repairman. and he can give me many names (many of them big names) and has as well. im just overprotective of my flute (even though i will probably be buying a new one within the next couple of years anyway). the idea of paying for another overhaul within the next year or so (which im sure it will need because it needed it after the first year of owning my flute but i be po' and only now have the money to invest in it) doesnt seem too fun, especially after hearing how much it will cost last week versus the last time i talked about an overhaul with him about 8 months ago.
ive heard that these pads last "longer" than the standard pad and that seems like a good option.
anyone have experience with straubingers on a muramatsu?

My opinion has changed some what about Straubinger pads. I really don't care for them and would like to get different ones on my Powell. They make a lot of slapping sounds when playing because they are very hard. (And no, I play with light fingers.) They come out of adjustment too easily. They seem to have to be reseated too often for what I would like and then it is so hard to find GOOD certified Straubinger techs that can do the job right. I took mine in to a well known place in which I will not mention on line and my pads are leaking in several places. It came back worse. I couldn't understand why I wasn't loving my flute anymore. I am waiting until Joe B has his shop up and running and then I will send it into him as I don't trust anyone else. They do split very easily also. They are nice pads when they are in proper adjustment. I would not opt for the Straubingers on a Mura though. Just my two cents

You don't need to edit Micron. It is expected that your posts be perfect everytime <G>.

Joe B

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Maybe I should have said
Micron, You don't need to edit.

People might wonder how they can edit Micron

what type of pad do you recommend then? i do have my option, money is not a concern when referring to pads. i believe his exact words were "you have your choice of pads. dont worry if one is more expensive than the other, ill do it at no charge. an example are the straubingers......." etc.

i just want my flute in top notch condition. should i stick with the mura pads? why? what is so great about them?

MBrowne,

First of all,

Why are you changing pads?

Are you dissatisfied with the current ones? If so what exactly?

Are you just changing pads to be changing pads?

Are the current pads needing to be replaced? (IOW, are you attempting to fix something that ain't broke?)

Don't just change pads to change pads. You need a good reason to change them. Then you can decide what you want. If your flute is playing well, leave it alone. If maintenance is becoming an issue, ANY new pad will have maintenance issues over time.

It's a pad. Flutes are designed to have them adjusted or replaced. Do it when necessary. Anything performs only as well as its weakest link and pads are the weakest link on pro flutes!

For some reason we (flute players) have fallen prey to expectations about pads. The skinny is that pads simply must seat well. And that is caused by an experienced technician, not the pad itself.

Joe B

in the years ive owned my flute (about 5 of them) its never been overhauled. its been adjusted once, but that wasnt exactly an adjustment. it was only a "dude, i have a competition in about 30 minutes and my key aint closing. HELP!" my flute was 2 years old and when i bought it it only had a minor adjustment. so that means original pads (7 year old pads on a flute i play approximately 7 hours a day, everyday), never a full COA (because i be "boke"), and it needs all of the above. badly.

i take care of my flute and put time into cleaning it, but ive noticed some "wrinking" of the pads (saw this soon after purchase) and noticed it on new muramatsu flutes as well. on others (not necessarily mine) i saw that the wrinkles sometimes fold over the tonehole (like a crease all the way across the pad) and will cause the key not to seat well. ive also heard that this is common with the mura pad? im scared it will happen to me. and im a college student who works part time in a music store (so you know im not getting paid much) and i dont exactly want to spend more money to fix it. i have the money now (and have the option to get the most for my money as well) and want it all to be taken care of.

i also have heard that there are better out there and that the mura pad is just a marketing hype that is only in place so that the "muramatsu trained" people only will work on the flute. is this true???

i just dont want to be blind in this.

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what about the cracked pads as well? why do they get that way, how to prevent it, etc.

im going to assume my case is extra-long use. these puppies are old. but is this common with the mura pad or is it just me?

i am happy with my technician. many many many people are too. hes a reputable repairman and does a topnotch job. im not comfortable saying who he is on the forum though. but i can give you a list of many people (professionals and big names, not schoolkids) who can vouch for this dude as well.

i want to know all my options before i go out and spend $1000+ you know? money is money and the value of the american dollar is going downhill. and you know that any salesman worth his weight is going to try to sell you the most expensive thing and claim its the best thing since sliced bread even when its just a waste of money.

i also have heard that there are better out there and that the mura pad is just a marketing hype that is only in place so that the "muramatsu trained" people only will work on the flute. is this true???

There is no such thing as "factory trained" repairmen. This is marketing hype to get you to send any repairs to the manufacturer.

Muramatsu America is not a factory, it's a distributor. Yes, they are allied with the manufacturer, but those facilities are not here. Unless they are sending people to the factory for flutemaking skills, there is no such thing as factory trained. Flutemaking is not repair. Knowing both is essential for a really exceptional repair tech simply because they can do more if necessary. (and have the tooling available)

Take me for instance. I was Landell trained, by a person in his flute workshop. And there are many like me out there. (but my character is unique!)

The "Mura pad" was something they developed that they were quite proud of. I really don't like them at all. They don't adjust as well because of the way they are designed and are what they are.

Now if you are not having a yearly COA and doing as much playing as you are, it doesn't surprise me that you are having issues with those pads.

Routine maintenance from now on is the answer, regardless of the pad you put in there.

BTW, IF YOU HAVE STRAUBINGERS PUT IN A MURAMATSU YOU WILL VOID YOUR WARRANTY.

Not that the warranty is all that important, but Muramatsu has rules about that. From the Muramatsu-America website

http://www.muramatsu-america.com/service.html We have factory trained personnel so you never have to worry about maintaining your quality instrument to its highest potential. We offer complete flute service for your Muramatsu flute, and use only genuine Muramatsu repair parts which are installed by our highly trained repair personnel. Our service prices are reasonable and satisfaction for all repairs performed are guaranteed. We highly recommend that flutists who own Muramatsu flutes use our service department for all maintenance repairs as well as flute overhauls. In this way, your Muramatsu flute will receive the best service available, while maintaining the instrument's full potential. Please note that we cannot accept responsibility for, or provide warranty on, any Muramatsu flute which has been subjected to "filing down" or altering of tone holes. We do not recommend this technique of flute padding for Muramatsu flutes.

Joe B

i dont have a warranty with my flute. even though i bought it through muramatsu america, because someone bought it before me (and let it sit in storage after playing it once) i dont get the warranty or something. thats what sue said so im just going to nod and say ok.

i didnt JUST start having problems with them. i know theyre old so my issues arent valid. but some of the problems came about when i first bought the thing. i shouldve had it taken care of then, but i was so intrigued by the fact that i had a new shiny flute and got it for a steal that i didnt care. and anything was better than what i had before.

but other than that, is there any recommendation you may give to me regarding what i should put on there? or should i just stick to whatever muramatsu wants? gah, im so confused. i hate options...

I just read about the straubinger pads.I do not mean to be rude but I do not think they are the pad for you at this time.

Per Straubinger just for installation:
"The instrument must be in the very finest mechanical condition in order for the pads to be installed properly. The tone holes must be shaped correctly and the cups perfectly aligned over the tone holes. The spuds must be at a precise height, and the screw washers and bushings (grommets) a particular shape"

You are aware you had problems with the flute from the get go and yet, have waited 5 years to address them. It looks like if you were to get the straubinger pads you would have to make a very serious committment to constantly maintain the flute in it's best possible condition.

Well I would not put Mura pads in there again. If you are not going to have tone holes refaced then, I would go with a traditional felt pad replacement and have stabilizers added to the cup. On a new Mura you will need a stabilizer underneath because of the integrated spud insert that is in there. DO NOT just pad with traditional felt pads without a solid backer on this flute or you will be asking for trouble.

MY recommendation is to go with a thin felt pad, not too hard, use a stabilizer for the foundation,(reason why you need a thin felt pad) and yes do have the tone holes leveled AND resurfaced. An average cost would be $500-$600 where I come from.

This is the easiest way to go about it that will be reliable. There are two ways of going the straub route with a mura, one keeps the original equipment and the other requires you to get rid of the whole assembly. This is a decision your tech will make when working on it and you will not know which was chosen without asking. If the whole assenbly is chucked you will remove a lot of mass from the system. Some people claim that removing that much mass from the system produces an undesirable effect. That's why I say keep it in there or replace it with a solid stabilizer foundation of similar mass. A solid stabilizer will make up the difference in mass between the existing stabilizer and that which they have designed into the pad. So if your tech goes that route of removing them to put straubs in or anything else for that matter, I strongly recommend making up the difference in mass by choosing an appropriate foundation stabilizer.

Joe B

I'm not sure why there are so many problems with Straubinger pads out there, I personally like these pads a lot and I even put a set of these in my backup Yamaha 561. It plays better than some of the handmade flutes otu there. The J.S pad that is, or was in hype not long ago, had to be recalled because these pads were install on one of James Galway's flute and the gold powder apparently didn't want to stay on the pad and got all over the tone hole and the mechanism.

I like these pads because I know everytime I press a key it is seated exactly where it needs to be.

The clicking: is caused by the pressure apply from the player's fingers. if you are a heavy action player, then it will be very audible. If your click, then it is a sign that tells you that you are pressing too hard, relax. You should not have put so much energy as you close the keys because these pads takes the hard work out of the technique.

Pad tears :
Straubinger pads are structured synthetically with some felt parts. Its surface is very hard and as you all should know, the tigher a cloth is stretched, the easier it is to tear. If your flute has sharp edge on the tone hole that is not surfaced or leveled PERFECTLY! then the ability of that pad is discounted accordingly. The degree of surfacing and leveling are some of the elements determining the quality of a handmade flute. Because it still contains some felt parts, it is still subjected to the damage of weather and moisture. These pads need some moisture, otherwise it will dry up and create leaks. I suggest you get a Dampit humidifier and make sure it is wipped down because you place it in the flute. I use Dampit and Anne Pollack's flute suit. The combination of these two have kept my flute out of the shop for over a year.

The problem that many people faced in this forum lie heavily on the quality of your repair tech. The prep/install process is crucial and different than the felt pads. If any phase is weak during this process, then the entire installation is in danger. Perhaps the question for this forum, really should be where can you find an expert Straubinger certified specialist. My flute goes only to one notable specialist in Boston and sometimes to David Straubinger himself. I also took his padding course and it was unbelievable how his work ethics and hours devoted in building new tools and high quality flutes. As a matter of fact, I own one of his flute and trust me why I say this, I tested so many flutes but I have never played anything this smooth in my career. The scale is soooooooooo even throughout its range, and the color you are able to achieve on his flute is just out of this world. In case you wondered, I am not Robertello or a player sponsored by David Straubinger. You simply just have to try his flutes to know what I am talking about.

If you are offered an overhaul with Straubinger pads, and the quality of this repair tech is trustworthy, then I say do it. Don't do it because he is trust worthy, but do it because the quality of his work is trust worthy. Straubinger pads are $6 a pad, not cheap and the hours into the installation is huge.

The pads are measure and fitted in according to the measure of the key and the grommet (female part of the screw hole) Also, your flute most likely have metal grommets (grommet is what hold the pads down on the opened keys.) Make sure, you tell him to reuse the metal grommets, not the delrin grommets. Metal grommets are vital to the flute's overtones and also helps the flute's resonance.

correction of my own post,

The measurement of the key,grommet's diamater (ID and OD) is need to get the correct measurement of the pads. Straubinger pads are not built one size fit all, it is measured precisely based on the measurement of your flute. It also depend on the height of the spud (the female part of the screw hole, not grommet hole as I previously mentioned) needs to be at the right height and shape for the pad to fit.