Looks like COA time is arriving for my Yamaha YFL 674.

But I still resist. The problem now is that the thumb key (the one used to pass from B to C) got noisy (i.e. quite noisy).

It clicks loudly when released and I noticed that the origin of the noise is the key plate (name?) external side hitting the Bb thumb key internal side. There is a nice white plush (name?) cushion there, but for some reason it is no longer preventing the clicking.

If I hear it while playing it means it must be very noticeable, so I need to fix this (or have it fixed).

- Is it a common problem? (the flute has about two years use and the pressure on the cushion is produced by the thumb key spring, not by my fingers, so it cannot be caused by my over-pressing on keys)

- Is there anything I could do without disassembling the flute? (such as turning the cushion upside down or turning it a quarter turn or so). But I looks like it is glued inside the small cup on the Bb thumb key.

Any hints based on your experience with Yamahas?

<Added>

May be a carefully placed drop of some solvent could unglue the cushion without disassembling the mechanics?

I knew!. But I'll wait for more opinions...

See, I really do not trust the technicians I have available locally and sending the flute away to more reputed guys is not a good idea at this time of the year. Anyway, I still can practise as is until... I can´t stand it any longer!

Hi Jose,

True that it may have shifted or your flute has been somehow damaged. ~someone playing with it when you aren't there?
or
Has your flute become hot recently? I mean like leaving it in a vehicle in the sun. THe temp inside of a vehicle can reach as much as 2X the ambient outside temp. and this can damage things like glue and of little relevance, plastics.



This pad between the thumb lever has a function of damping the noise as well as spacing the relationship between the thumb pad and the true Bb (Between LH1 and 2) If' it's not there or too thick it will cause problems on the notes with your use of TBb. Try the TBb1 and D# fingering. Does it sound properly?

I agree with Suzie - COA!! NOW!! (or preferably last week)

As Bilbo says altering that one felt (If that is a correct diagnosis) can cause other problems to appear.

Flutes are sophisticated mechanical devices & unless you know what you're doing they can easily become totally unplayable then difficult to put right. Even a 10 degree turn on an adjusting screw can cause problems.

I agree about turning screws and mechanical adjustments. That's why I will not disassemble the flute.

As I said, COAs and other not-emergency interventions are an issue here and still I do not have any technician in this city who I trust or seems experienced enough. I had a tenon repaired recently and the guy saved the HJ, but I did not like the job as to have him COA my flute.

However the clicking was too annoying and I did something: with a fingernail I carefully raised a little the border of the pad, on both sides of it.

It seemed to be crushed and quickly become puffy again. The noise disappeared like magic.

Probably it will not hold and I will need this pad changed. But it will be at earliest by mid January, after the crazy season and my return from a short holiday beginning of 2009.

There has been no exposition to hot weather and it was never left in a car. Apart from night gnomes or my unknown somnambulistic playing, nobody else plays the instrument (certainly not my wife and no other family here, no maids).

<Added>

Bilbo, I do not understand the relationship of this pad with D#. could you please explain?

The tiny gap mentioned in 1 is actually a large gap, such that these keys can wobble significantly sideways. This is common, but is unlikely to be a problem on a Yamaha. Solution is to 'swedge' the hinge tube to fit better on the hinge rod (and better between the supporting posts.)

I see this all the time on the Yamaha student flutes, so maybe Micron was meaning that it doesn't seem to be a problem with your particular model. I have had some new Yamaha 221 flutes that were not fitted properly on the thumb key that did a lot of clanking, that is very typical for at least the Yamaha student line flutes. As a reference: I mostly carry Yamaha student flutes when selling and have seen a great number of them over the years.

I agree with everyone else, COA as soon as you can. Good luck!

"1. Most common: The tiny gap between the hinge tube and hinge rod (for either or both of the B key and Bb lever)is no longer filled with oil. Oil it."

Yes, this sounds very reasonable becuase I was wondering how bumping against a felt, no matter how crushed it was, could produce such a metalic noise. And yes, there is a small gap that allows for a little sideways movement.

I think that oiling (provided I can do it without disassembling the mechanics) is something I can try.

I doubt about the oil to use. Normal Machine oil (such as used in sewing machine) would be OK? Or clockwork oil? I also have 3-in-one (made by W40) with a practical applicator, similar to a felt pen.

How NOT to apply oil to instruments - take a can of WD40 & spray the instrument from about 6 inches away!! I have had to deal with the results of that a couple of times. In neither case did it cure the problem anyway.

I do not see or feel any gummy residues at that particular place. On the contrary, the hinge looks to be enjoying a good clearance (maybe too much?)

I suppose that if I can oil a clockwork and keep it only in the right places I could oil a simple rod hinge, even on a flute. But I have decided not disassemble any mechanics.

So I may apply only a very little oil quantity on the gaps, from outside, using a toothpick and with utmost care to keep it away from the pads (cup and hole pads). Then I will clean any excess oil.

If this is not enough to solve the clacking (which by now is gone, anyway) I would leave it as is until I can get it to COA and live with the noise if it comes back.

Or simply, I could wait until the clacking comes back and then decide what to do. I have no auditions in view for a few months to come.

It has been a nice and enlightening discussion and I have learnt interesting new things. Thank you all.

If there is a visible gap between the key and the adjoining post, that might be contributing to your noisy key. Sometimes, if there is too much of a gap, the spring will force the key away from the post. When the key is pressed, it then moves into contact with the post and produces a click.

The gap could be the result of wear or it could be the result of bumping the post against something which has moved it slightly out of proper alignment. Either way, a good flute technician should be able to correct the problem. This can be done by tightening the key on the steel shaft (called swedging) or by realigning the post.

Jose, unless you really know what you are doing as far as repairs go on the flute, I would NOT do anything. I would not advice you to add oil to anything unless you remove the old oil first. It is a very simple process to do on the thumb key and if you do not feel comfortable with doing it this way than simply don't. You are either going to have to play with it as is or suck it up and take it to a repair tech. Simple!

Micron, if you are going to quote me please use quotations.

Jose, I would do it properly and take it in for a COA or learn the proper way of removing the old oil first. Do not mix oils. I was taught never to mix oils by qualified repair techs and flute makers which have a degree and are truly experts in their field. It has been an enjoying journey being able to speak with some of these techs that are true artists.

I suppose that since I am from the USA that my issues with the student Yamaha flutes don't hold true. I must be imaging things. It must be the voices again!!!

While it's true that some oils don't mix well, there is no risk of it damaging the flute mechanism. The worst that can happen is that the key could become sluggish. Should that happen, the fix is simply to remove the key(s), clean off the oil, and relubricate/reassemble (i.e. a COA)

There's a far greater potential for PERMANENT damage to the flute if the oil has dried-up. Without adequate lubrication, the steel shaft being much harder than silver (or nickel silver) can be quite abrasive and wear away metal inside the key tubing. In that situation, the only fix is a complete overhaul (major $$$).

In my experience with repairs, applying oil is certainly preferable to the risk of premature wear. It simply makes good sense for the player to learn the proper way to apply oil. Those players that are concerned about mixing oils should simply buy their oil from the flute tech that services their flute. That way you can be sure that you are using a compatible oil.

Thanks you all for your concerns about my problem. So far I have done just nothing, as the "band aid" solution I did with the cushion pad continues to be OK.

Kara, I do not see a simple way to disassemble the thumb key pivot on my flute. The pivot screw is "hidden" behind the longest flute bridge (the one operated by the second trill key) and I fear propagating the problem if I disassemble this very long rod. This is something I certainly will not do myself, not in this flute. So if I eventually oil the thumb key rod, it will be only from outside.

I acknowledge the concerns about mixing oils and the risks about using 3-in-one types. Also, as clockwork oil is extremely light (thin), I suppose it is not adequate for this job.

I think the safest way is to obtain original Yamaha oil from a distributor, I suppose I can get it somewhere in Madrid. I do not care about the price unless it was absurdly high.

This flute is only two years old and the body has never been serviced after it left Flute World, so I guess the oils in it must be those used by the Yamaha factory (unless Flute World made some unrequested oiling themselves, which I much doubt).

I am the type of person that enjoys being self-sufficient, particularly in technical issues and I am much technical minded because of my engineering formation and long working experience (though I am retired now)

But I also acknowledge that I have no experience in the mechanics of a flute and its peculiarities, so I am being extremely conservative in this opportunity. This is also the main reason (and not an economic reason) why I hesitate about sending my instrument to a technician I do not know or I do not trust. You are lucky in the USA because you have access to several renown technicians and not necessarily in your own city, but still with easy access.

It is not the case in Madrid, (as far as I know) and the reputed technicians in this country of whom I have references from this same Forum and older thread, are far away, overloaded with work and therefore with very long response times.

I will see my teacher today and ask her about her servicing experiences with her Muramatsu, but I already know she has it serviced by the technician working with the shop where she bought it in Madrid. Not my case, as I purchased it in USA.

"I do not see a simple way to disassemble the thumb key pivot on my flute"

??

There seems to be some confusion here. The thumb keys are held on by one short rod, mounted across the flute at their mid point which is easily accessible - there is no need to take any other keys off.