Genau!.

The new born human only has some innate immunity inherited from the mother, but her/his immature immune system must quickly get in contact with real world pathogens to develop its defences and survive.

A good deal of this first contact takes place in the birth canal (dare not name the explicit name). For this reason, babies being born by caesarean take longer to develop their immune system. They do it anyway, mainly by bacteria they inhale in the air and from the normal manipulation of their hospital caring personal, clothes and devices they get in contact with.

I believe this process continues our whole life. It is, in fact the principle behind the vaccines. It is better to get an infection from an attenuated or dead pathogen than to have a first, unprepared encounter with a healthy one.

I do not think that Herpes, to take an example mentioned in this thread can be avoided just by behaving very, very carefully. The virus is everywhere and unless we can live in an sterile hospital bubble, we are continuously being confronted with it. We catch it or not depending on our defences at the right moment.

But of course we care that our babies and children to not eat what they find on the street or suck the street poles when we are not looking (my second child loved to do so, exactly where street dogs like to !***! and he survived anyway).

One problem is, as usual, to use common sense and not to exaggerate in either direction.

But the main problem is, as I was taught at school, that "common sense is the less common of the senses"


<Added>

-piss- has been stupidly censored. Who wrote this program of censorship?

I consider most of those precautions to be exaggerations of a perceived, non-existent risk. There are probably more risks in drinking a beer in a bar at the street corner (have you seen how the typical barman "cleans" the glasses?) than playing someone's else instrument. My instrument at least has no saliva on the lip plate, there could be some in the inside, but there is no easy way it could get in my mouth.

I don't know about Europe, but all the places that I have tended bar required that a sanitizer be added to the water for cleaning the dishes and bar glasses. This sanitizer was so strong, I had to wear gloves or my skin would start to peel off. (It probably cleaned your insides too when you downed that beer!)

Where I live, it is illegal to work in a restaurant if you have Hepatitis. I have no idea how they enforce this law, but it is a law.

I still stand by my Hepatitis prevention of sanitizing any instrument before playing. There are more and more cases of Hepatitis every year and quite a few of the cases are in children. Young Children. So they probably bled or spat on each other. (to put it nicely)

There are more cases of Hepatitis in third world countries then there are in the US, but being catious is a good idea.

I too believe that we shouldn't sanitize the whole world. I do not use antibactiral soaps. I don't see the need for them.

I don't get vaccinated for the flu. So far my immune system seems to take care of a lot of colds. I just don't get sick very often.

I am going to get vaccinated for hepatitis because I like to fix musical instruments. It is just a precaution that I want to take. Being sick with a serious disease that is preventable doesn't sound like fun. It sounds misearable and expensive.

Well, Europe is not one country but tens of them and rules are by far not homogeneous.

Even if they were, they would not be applied in the same way and the laws not be enforced equally. As for public health issues, I must confess it is a little chaotic here.

I do not think there is any rule about using sanitizing products in bars in Spain, though they may be used somewhere else.

I agree about the precautions concerning hepatitis B, and our young people are strongly recommended to get vaccinated against it (for the reasons I explained in my assessment about the main way of spreading, they are in the group of higher risk).

I understand your concerns if you receive many wind instruments to clean and work on them.

In any case, all personal approaches to this problem are to be respected and I just expressed my own view of the subject. It is interesting and useful for me to know how different people perceive the risks and what they do about it.

I don't remember who it was, but a man who had extreme OCD ended up living in a sanitized plastic ball for fear of germs. I have OCD....I don't want to end up like that. Comparativley, sanitizing a flute isnt bad. However, I still havn't gotten over my childhood fear of needles...I can't get vaccined unless somebody ties me to a table or knocks me out. Ugg...

I suppose you are referring to the Obsesive-Compulsive Disorder.

I tried wikipedia disambiguation with this result:

* Obsessive-compulsive disorder, a psychological disorder
* Osteochondritis dissecans, a painful joint condition in humans and animals
* Ortho-Clinical Diagnostics
* Osteochondral dowel

yes..obssesive compulsive disorder. Bleck.

Earlier John was refering to having friends who soak thier reeds in a 50/50 water/listerine solution. I wonder if it had any benefits? Furthermore...how is listerine much different from an instrument sanitizer spray? Theoretically, couldn't somebody just put Listerine in a spray bottle and use that...

Well, I"d check the contents of Listerine. One issue is that it smells. I wouldn't enjoy working with musicians that smell of the traditional Listerine.
Another issue is that Listerine isn't necessarilly good for the instrument (or the reeds. They put things into these mouth washes and toothpaste (Llke artificial sweeteners) that really aren't so good for us or our instruments.
For example, (I don't have Listerine) My Crest Pro health mouth wash has water glycerin, flavor, poloxamer 407(Whatever that is), sodium saccharin (Old type of artificial sweetener), blue 1.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poloxamer_407
Description: A nonionic polyoxyethylene-polyoxypropylene block co-polymer with the general formula HO(C2H4O)a(-C3H6O)b(C2H4O)aH.

whoee!!!

Okay, now that is just not right. Listerine? I agree with the others that have said to use rubbing alcohol. I like to keep my embouchure hole clean. I don't care what anyone else says or thinks but I like to keep my flute nice and clean and I use rubbing alcohol to clean out the headjoint about once a month. More if I actualy practice the dang thing. And no.. I am not a germ freak. But it is something that continues to come in contact with my lips than prefer it to be sanitized once in a while, yah know. Don't let anyone make you think that there is anything wrong with wanting to keep your flute sanitized. We all have different priorities and opinions. I better go know because I feel the germs all around me, I must go take a hot shower.

Just a short comment on OCD. Not necessary to reply. I am just trying to help.

Some concerns about the case of a person that decided to live inside a sterile bubble because of fear to germs were mentioned in a previous post. This was a extreme example, but nevertheless this disorder, when left without treatment, in many cases can get more serious with time.

There are treatments available, a correct combination of medicaments and psychological therapy can help alleviate the condition and perhaps cure it. It is normally a long term treatment but it is necessary in most of the cases.

These opinions are not mine, but from someone who knows about this. I apologize in advance in case my comment could be taken as invading privacy or other negative feelings. Its intention was all the contrary.

thanks, but I already take medicine in the mornings. =) Actually, I am going to the doctor soon to reduse the dosage, and eventually get off the meds all together. *whooo-hoooo* No offense taken.

I can imagine that the smell could be rather bad...do you think that the coloring in the listerine would make the cork discolored?

".do you think that the coloring in the listerine would make the cork discolored?"
It would but not to worry, You can't see that part of the cork unless you take it out and then if you do, it probably should be replaced. The only thing is that the cork is very porous and will soak in the listerine so that it will smell for a very long time......The ancient Egyptians used it for embalming fluid on their mummies. j/k

BTW: Kara's right about cleaning her head joint and the Emb. hole. If you let it go, it can build up sludge in there and it would affect the tone.

Wow!, a fluid for corpse embalming! is that what so many people put in their mouths to solve minor problems as halitosis?

And worst, it would not be useful to alleviate this disorder, as by left alone (no teeth brushing) it cannot remove plaque or combat gingivitis, a major cause of "bad breadth".

More seriously, I checked what Wikipedia says about its ingredients:

"The active ingredients listed on Listerine bottles are menthol, thymol, methyl salicylate, and eucalyptol. Ethanol is present in concentrations of 21.6% in the flavored product and 26.9% in the original gold Listerine Antiseptic. Thymol is an antiseptic, methyl salicylate is cleaning agent, and menthol is local anesthetic. At this concentration, the ethanol serves to dissolve the active ingredients. Contrary to persistent myths, methanol (which is frequently confused with menthol) is not an ingredient."

Does not sound extremely bad, considering that Methanol (a poisonous alcohol) is not included in it. Thymol, which could be suspect at first glance, is a natural ingredient derived from thyme. I has bacterial and fungi killing properties and is the one that was used by ancient Egyptians in mummy preparation.

So in fact it seems that using Listerine could be acceptable and even beneficial. Not that I would do it, but another probably useful idea for people too much afraid of germs in their flutes. Now, if Menthol (a local anesthetic) could put our lips to rest, it would not help much in playing fast passages.... Indicated only for slow Adagio players, I am afraid.

Also Methyl Salicylate is a natural ingredient but it is toxic and does not look much safe. I suggest to check wikipedia if interested on its risks.

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as by left = as, if left

Always be careful with Wikipedia.
After all they post that an accidental does NOT carry over the bar line on a tied note.

And we all it know it does . . . . . . . . . . right?
RIGHT!

Whoa...I never knew it carried over the bar line, I did learn music, after all, from the ever reliable wikipedia. =)

People have mentioned that when the cork is removed, it should be replaced. Why is this so? Is it bad to remove your cork for cleaning or swabbing purposes occasionally? ( I refer to the cork attached to the flute "cap, as the cork comes out with the "cap" when the "cap" is unscrewed and removed)