I wish I have, but lessons are so expensive, and the money just isn't there...

Oh, and I'll try and find out who my prof would be and contact him/her.

Thank you Micron, for your advise, although I am set on not getting a student model. I have consulted my band director (the flautist) just this morning. She was relieved that I did not get the Gemeinhardt, but contrary to Kara's comment about open-holed instruments, my director stated that open-holed instruments DO improve tone. She helped me eliminate some of the flutes posted earlier on this forum, and I am down to 4(!) possibilities . These would be the ones:

-Yamaha Proffesional 584H *MINT*(and she added as a side note that the 481II model is practically the same, except without the gold springs and the pointed key arms, and that it would run much cheaper). ($1499)

-The open-hole Miyazawa with the hand-cut headjoint and the plated body ($1799)

-The other open-hole Miyazawa that is completely silver, and is on sale ($1599)

-The hand-made *MINT* condition Altus ($1999)

I am particularly leaning towards that Yamaha, and my band director even agrees that it is well priced. I would like to try them all, but I need to find out how. Does Liz mail the instruments for a charge, and does she send multiple?

I cannot thank the members of this forum enough for helping me steer away from the Gem... I already have help in paying for at least $1000 for an instrument, so apart from trying these out, I am well on my way to getting one.

Comments and suggestions are welcome, but I have been dead set on not getting a student flute. I am willing to work at it to strike up the funding to buy an instrument that I can really learn on (More than on a student model). If all else fails, though, I will follow Micron's advice and see about getting a student Yamaha, almost certainly from Liz. I would like to hear especially from Kara, since she gave me the list, and would know whether or not my revised version is composed of sound choices. As for lessons, I have my band director who was the Primary flute in her college. I would assume that she could help me out if I consulted her. Apart from that, I have hit the ability cap on my Deford and need to move up.

I think there's an error in the listing for the 584H. It probably isn't solid silver, but silver head/plated body. When Yamaha changed their pro models (581, 681, 881, etc.), or Type 1 body, to the 584, 684, etc Type 4 body, they made the 500 series with a silver plated, rather than silver tube, body.

The open holes will not affect tone. Leaks in pads will affect tone. Squeezing an open-hole flute harder when it isn't plugged, vs playing it without squeezing keys with the holes plugged, therefore will improve tone. But this improvement will be due only to the leaks being squashed shut by too much force on the fingers.

Your flutey band director is misinformed about the open holes. Most of the upper level (Juilliard, etc.) players that I know play an open hole flute, with most of the open-hole keys plugged. Some European flutists in prestigious symphony orchestras play closed hole flutes. They would not do so if the open holes made tone better.

You may actually need open holes in college to cover learning and playing some types of jazz and extended effects. Most flutes sold in the US that are beyond student-level flutes do have open holes, so you'll probably end up with one. But the open holes won't help your tone, or anyone else's.

Micron has a fantastic summary of why an open hole flute can't have better tone than a closed-hole one, if he'd care to post that for us.

My favorite argument, is that there is not a difference in tone between the notes played with the open hole keys up, such as C,B, right hand thumb-key Bb, A, etc versus notes played with most of the open-hole keys closed (Eb, D, low C# and C).

Glad to hear that you're thinking of lessons. Look over the Jennifer Cluff website, she has extensive information regarding what a person needs to know to play flute in college. If you have to skimp on lessons, and do some learning on your own, there's quite a bunch of information there for you to mine:
http://www.jennifercluff.com/

I think your idea of contacting the flute teacher at the college you want to go to is the best one I've heard yet. I do think you need a new flute, but contacting that teacher will probably save you a LOT of time, money, frustration, etc, and get you off toward learning what you will need to start in the music program.

Good luck!

Liz does state that the Yamaha flute is "sterling silver (headjoint, body, foot)", but even if the body and foot of the instrument were only plated, the overall sound of the instrument would not really change, because it is the hj that counts. I love the deal on this flute regardless, but playing it against the other choices will confirm it.

My only worry is that the instrument will be sold before I decide if I like it or not...

BTW: Tibbiecow, do you know how one goes about testing instrument capatability over the internet?

<Added>

About the open holes... I figure I'll be safe in getting an open-holed flute and purchase plugs so I can stay on middle grounds. It would not hurt to have one because as you've said, I might need to learn some techniques that involve them.

I also forgot to mention that I was misinformed about the girl with the Yamaha...
Her flute isn't even a Yamaha, but I could have sworn it was. I thought I saw the Yamaha logo...
Her flute is a Sonare, and that is all I know. I just found out today...LOL, how embarassing...

I'd rather not take a side... Having one with holes and plugs gives me the best of both worlds. I can choose whether or not to use them, and I'd feel better about that freedom. Open-hole flutes are aesthetically pleasing anyway , but seriously I wouldn't get it just because it looks cool.

Maybe I should show this link to my director?

I think that you have a great selection picked. I personally really like the Altus flute and I know that Liz does also. I really prefer their scale to Yamahas. She does offer trials. You will need to drop her an email or call her and get the details. All her contact info is right on her site. Did you get to see the Muramatsu EX that I was selling? Now those are fantastic! They are a bit hard to find used though for under $2000 right now. Liz can also work with you to match up a headjoint on a flute. So if you don't like the headjoint of a particular flute she will work around that with you and has other heads in stock. If you do talk to her, make sure to tell her that Kate sent you. (Kara is just my screen name on here.)

I have to agree with the others on the open hole issue. Unfortunately a lot of flutists are misinformed about this and also get swayed by marketing hype a lot of times. I agree with Tibbie though, when in college you may want to use them for bending of notes for some of those modern or jazz pieces.

If long distance costs are an issue and you want to call Liz just let her know and I know she would be happy to call you back so that you won't get charged for the call. Good luck!

Johnny,
I think most of us, including your flutey band director, can agree that you will probably need the open holes at least while you are actually learning the extended technique- microtone trills, glissandi, etc of some of the jazz flute literature.

Most folks I know, that do NOT have much interest in this particular extended technique, plug the holes in their flute once they're out of college. The open holes are simply not needed for most flute repertoire- excepting some jazz and modern compositions. You'll likely learn it in college, and at that point you 'll KNOW whether you want to play music like this.

But open holes will not affect the tone of the flute.

By all means, give this link to your teacher.

I'm hoping to set up an open-hole debunking trial right here, if some other board members can help out!

And as for testing flute compatability over the internet, I just don't think you can do it sight unseen. You will have to have some different flutes sent to you, and play them, perhaps keeping some on trial. Jen Cluff has some good info about getting flutes on trial, how to test them, etc.

I bought my fancy flute off eBay- not recommended, but I could have sent it back if it was a lemon. It was a Yamaha 881, handmade, soldered toneholes, with a C-footjoint that nobody else seemed to want. I bought the flute for about 1/4 of its new list price, in as-new condition. I was actually looking for a Yamaha 581 to replace my Gemeinhardt 3SHB (really!) and the 881 came up for sale. Its headjoint was weird; I replaced it- via testing lots of new headjoints on trial from Woodwind Brasswind- with a Prima Sankyo NRS-1.

Anyway, you'll have to play some different flutes to find what really suits you.

JohnnyB

get the opened hole flute it looks so much better than the closed hole. plugs really don't matter. just take them out one at a time until you become uesed to it.

go for the miyazawa becuase out of the all that you suguessted it is the best. ii is worth it.

Good luck!

Re-selling price can be a little higher for open hole instruments (with all other variables equal), because they are trendy.

I have an open holed flute that I plug because of hand issues. And when studying with some big named people, many of them have plugs in their flute as well. Take any principal from any fairly popular orchestra, and they probably use at least 1 plug.

I will most definitely call Liz and see how I can best test these instruments. My next post will hopefully reflect my findings, and I will plan from there.

You might also want to give Nancy Shinn a call. She's from North Carolina, too, and may have instruments that you can go to her shop and play:

http://www.flutestar.com/

I've also done business with Nancy and can recommend her. She'll probably know your prospective flute teacher, and I'm sure she's helped others find that tight-budget college flute. She'll probably be able to help you find a teacher, as well, if she's as local as I think she is.

I have just contacted Liz, and I can see why you all have recommended her. Apparently, one of her Miyazawas were sold, and the other one is about 10-12 years old and is tuned to A=442 (Am I right?). Her Altus instrument was also sold, and that left the Yamaha, which she still has. She does have a policy on flute trials, but since the Yamaha is still in plastic, any wear that I would present on the flute would be noticeable should I return it.

She has agreed that the instrument is completely silver, and has also recommended that I purchase the instrument with a Haynes Amadeus hj to replace the EC hj that the instrument came with, at no extra cost! (The 'EZ' hj, as she calls it, offers little resistance, and I would be better off with the Haynes). She would also throw in some plugs, and the total price of the flute would run at $1539. I am too afraid of the instrument being sold before I can rack up the remaining $539 !!
Is it advisable that I go ahead and get the instrument? My other choices have been singled out, the instrument is the most fitting for my budget, and I am in a hurry to choose before the horrific word 'SOLD' appears after the flute description on her site... What should I do?

<Added>

We had a good 15 minute discussion, and she did not pressure me to get the instrument, if that is how she came across. This is just the reasonable (or at least I think so) conclusion to our discussion, not a sales rant she has given me. Reading over this entry made Liz look like a car salesman :(.

The pressure I have is all my own anxiety.