I've got the pad selection down to two choices:

JLSmith 303/311 - woven felt, .110in(2.8mm) - probably a good fit, minimal shimming
needed/possible
or...

ferreestools B29 - woven felt, 2.5mm - will require/allow shimming
B39 - woven felt, 2.6mm for cemented pads

The B29's are intended for Gemeinhardts with shallow key cups. I'm working on two different Armstrong student flutes. I gather most techs would put in the 2.8 (or 2.9mm) pads and clamp to seat. Neither flute seems to have any shims in it currently - except the partial shims I added to one footjoint to compensate for pads which are too thick (maybe have swollen).

Jim

I will always use a slightly thinner pad & use full shims rather than an overthick one & use partial shims at the front. As Micron says clamping to compress the pad to acheive seating is not the way to get top quality results. It is best to use the same thickness throughout to keep the same feel on all keys. I find that 99.9% of pads I use are 2.5mm.

Contra448 - what pads do you use? where do you get them?

I've figured out that Ferrees will ship pads only by the dozen. The only other 2.5mm pads I've found are the ones at musicmedic - they don't seem to have the best reputation.

"more to repadding than I realize" ... that's for sure.

It really doesn't seem like much useful tonehole work could be done on an old Armstrong with rolled toneholes.

Key bending sounds interesting. I see tools for that at Ferrees. Does one do that with the keys mounted on the flute? Sounds tough on the posts and rods.

Dazed....
Jim

Key bending sounds interesting. I see tools for that at Ferrees. Does one do that with the keys mounted on the flute? Sounds tough on the posts and rods.

You can do it off the flute as well and you have to develop a feel for how much since when you take the keys off, your reference for how much is gone until you put the keywork back on. It's more time consuming to do it that way. There is then no stress on the posts or ribs and everything is controlled to change only the part you want chamged.

Again there's a learning curve involved if you want to use that method. As Micron said though, posts and ribs are relatively strong for this procedure.

Music center spa is Pisoni; exact same pads as you can get here.

There are many, many techniques that can be utilized to repad. Tone hole prep tools can be expensive or cheap, It depends on the method and the technique you develop after you've decided on a particular method.

It's not ecactly easy at first but with practice you will get better at it. Pads by the dozen can seem expensive, but you may need a dozan of a size for practice purposes!

Joe B
At a flute convention right now...Traveling again tomorrow. Will check back in late tomorrow

I use the Music Center yellow Premium deluxe which are the same as amny of the US suppliers use I believe.

I've ordered some "stuff". A variety of pads from MusicMedic, .001 and .004 shims from JLSmith, some .001 feeler stock, adhesive pellets from JLSmith, etc. I'll need to re-order more pads when I decide exactly which ones fit.

I may be crazy - it is going to cost me more than the two student flutes are worth to repad them. I guess I'll have to consider it good entertainment!

Jim

I just watched a series of "yamaha flute overhaul" videos on youtube. Pretty cool, but there were some tricky parts that seemed glossed over.

I'm starting to believe I should get a set of key clamps, yes? They come in a couple styles. Are the more expensive ones worth the extra money? How many do I need, assuming I may be willing to work in stages.

Jim

I agree with Micron. The videos are mostly good for as far as they go, but there is a lot more to flute repadding than can be learned from a few 5 minute videos. From my perspective, the videos present the broad strokes of a repad job, but as the old saying goes, "The devil is in the details". Also, from my perspective, the videos show a repad job - not an overhaul. To me, an overhaul includes additional work such as tightening/swedging loose keywork to remove key "slop", cleaning, polishing, and very minor dent removal (if needed).

Some observations and comments:
The tech uses a screw block to store the pivot screws. On better flutes, the screws are often hand selected for the best fit and it's important to put screws back precisely where they were removed from and not mix them up - even though they APPEAR to be identical. Some techs just immediately put the screw back in the post rather than using a screw block. There are advantages/disadvantages to both methods. If not secured in place or weighted, screw blocks can turn over and the screws fall out and get mixed up. If stored in the post, the screws can get in the way of cleaning/polishing.

As each screw and steel rod is removed, I clean it to remove all traces of old oil. I also run a pipe cleaner through each key to clean and remove old oil. During reassembly, I apply fresh oil.

There seems to be a lot of jumping around from removing some pads, then removing some corks from kickers, then some more pads. Each repair tech is different, but I prefer a more orderly approach. Dissasemble, remove all pads, remove all corks, etc., from the main body, then repeat with the footjoint. I prefer to take more care with the removed keys and not just pile them up. When the keys are off the flute, I lay them out in an orderly fashion (without stacking) to prevent scratching. Avoid tapping on the key cups with your screwdriver as seen in video 1 around 4:24 - not good for the finish. This is particularly important with higher quality flutes. No one likes to get their flute back with more scratches on it than when they left it for repair.

The videos did not include any check for level tone holes nor did they provide any guidance on using pad shims. Shimming may require assembly/dissasembly many times to ensure that each pad touches the tone hole equally at all 360 degrees. During reassembly, I prefer to check each pad for proper seating as I install it. I do that by checking with a feeler all around the pad - not just at the front. Only after each pad is properly shimmed do I perform the final assembly and clamping. That is followed by adjustments of the key mechanisms of interdependent keys such as Bb, checking for proper key opening height and adjusting as needed, and checking for proper spring tension on each key.

Another omission was to check the condition of the headjoint cork. A quick suction test will reveal any leaks. If there's any doubt, the cork is replaced.

And of course, the last and IMHO, the most important thing is a play test. My play test includes scales in various keys, a chromatic scale (low B/C to 4th octave C), alternate fingerings such as all three Bb fingerings, the F#s, etc., and finally some short excerpts from flute literature. Only, when I'm satisfied with the play test and the "feel" of the flute do I consider the job finished.

You guys put in words a lot of things I was thinking. I absolutely cringed at smacking the key with the screwdriver! And all the parts piled on top of each other and on the tools was just as bad. And what's up with every single piece of cork being from the same sheet (i.e. same thickness) with almost no adjustments? I would have liked to see how the cemented pads were installed.

BTW, I'm not intending on promoting anything I do as "professionally overhauled". I probably won't try to sell any of the flutes I am planning on working on. I really would like to learn to do a good job, and I realize there is a huge amount of know-how, skills, equipment, supplies, and even talent involved to become an expert. I think I have some talent - I've been disassembling/assembling/fiddling things since before I could talk. I don't really have the time to go off to a music tech school for months/years. I might have the opportunity to go up to Landell for a week eventually. I figure I'll get more out of it with just a little experience behind me.

Anyway, I appreciate all the coaching. I received email today that the items I ordered were all shipped. Next weekend will be a busy flute weekend, seeing how pads and shims fit and checking tonehole levels, etc.

Jim

Ooooooh the mail is here, and the mailman brought me my stuff! I hardly know where to start. I'll report back later.
Jim