My backup (Pearl 501E) has a split E. It definitely has a stuffy quality to some notes, as Pyrioni described above.

It also makes the E easier. I used that flute specifically for a part in Wind Symphony where three flutes made a chord to accompany the oboe, at pp dynamic. I had the top of the chord, on an E, and was expected to play it pp.
When I switch back to my Yamaha 881, I sometimes miss the E once or twice, until I can make the adjustment. It isn't hard if you've learned on a non-split-E instrument. I just dislike the stuffy quality enough that I prefer to work a little harder for the E.

I would have to recommend that you look into the E facilitator, installed by a flute tech. You can try the effect without gluing a piece of Coke can in your flute, you can try plastic wrap carefully applied over part of the key to give you an idea of what an E facilitator can do. This effect should solve the problem without giving you any stuffy qualities.

If you put plastic wrap over the tone hole, wouldn't it then cause a leak when the pad hits it? Or am I misunderstanding the way you put the plastic wrap on?

And thanks Pyrioni! I was going to try ordering one from JL Smith, but now I may just try the one made by Brannen then.

Jose, no one sees the crescent and the glue does come off, it won't hurt the flute at all. Most flute companies solder the donut into place. Glue, is less temporary if you don't end up liking it.

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Tibbie, that was another reason I preferred not to use a split E as I couldn't get used to the stuffiness of that one note after playing years without one.

I think Powell must have changed to what Brannen does...because mine looks just like that Brannen picture. My Sanky has one that looks like a donut...or washer...cut out is a circle in the center. I love this feature and would probably have it added on my flute if it were not there already. I notice E's being harder when I play a flute without it.

"On my off days, I use RH middle finger for F#."

That helps intonation slightly, but I haven't noticed a significant effect on ease of response, and I'm not aware of a fingering that helps like with high E.

"That helps intonation slightly, but I haven't noticed a significant effect on ease of response, and I'm not aware of a fingering that helps like with high E."

Yes, not significant, but it helps a little. (middle finger increased the resistance a little)

There is no fingering that helps high E. (becoz two key are completely open - too little resistance)

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Jose_luis, only the middle finger.

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Piccolo1991, yes you are right, I checked with my uncle who is a local flute/sax repairman, he confirms that all new Powell's E-facilitator are same shape as Brannen's G-insert. (the picture could be the old design, I don't know, I was only translating) :)

Oh! The troubles that a previous generation of flautists has brought upon you all by changing JB's original idea of open G#!

"Yes, not significant, but it helps a little. (middle finger increased the resistance a little)"

Not enough to justify if the fingering is awkward for the phrase. In fact, the response is close enough that I only use the middle finger F# for slightly better intonation. As said, I'm not aware of any fingering that helps the response of high F# like split E or the alternate fingerings below help high E.

"There is no fingering that helps high E."

On the contrary, if you use the standard fingering for high E and add the second trill key, that improves the response drastically. If you take that fingering and raise the first two fingers on your right hand, that brings high E into tune with the same great response. I use these fingerings whenever I can get away with it because the sound is much better, and it's especially good for playing high E softly.

Yes, you are right.

But middle fingering for F# was taught to me by a student of Michel Debost(ex-principal of Paris symphony orchestra, professor of Paris conseratory, Pahud's teacher at Paris conservatory) at Oberlin College Ohio. He said it responded better, and they were taught this way there. To me it responded better too.

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I only add second trill for forte Middle octave E to prevent cracking.

Micron wrote:
"I guess you will have to cut it out of a sheet of sterling silver, or gold."

You are being quite prolific, with 9 posts in a row...

No, I do not intend to put crecents of any material, even gold or Kryptonite in my present flute. Main reason is that high E is quite acceptable with the new HJ. High F# is still a workable issue and I will try those tricks mentioned here. But when my embouchure is correct even F# sounds peacefully. Not the case with the previous EC cut HJ.

However I am still not decided whether I would buy a backup flute without split E, such as the Yamaha YFL221. This discussion (with all its unavoidable sideways) is therefore quite interesting for me.

I'd say this ends up as a sort of dilemma.

If you buy a backup flute with a split E, you will certainly notice a difference. You may, or may not, like the difference- if you don't like it, you will want to sell the split E backup flute. If you do like it, you will want to put a piece of kryptonite in your YFL-674.

So, I'd say either try one out to see if the mechanism and stuffiness of high E (and some other notes, for me) bothers you or you are happy with the ease of response of the E. I think the difference between your usual, and backup flute (if it did indeed have the split E) would bother you. So I would simply have the same thing on both flutes, whatever you choose.

By the way, I'm not saying that the difference would bother everyone, but JoseLuis does tend to notice and root out and explore these subtle differences in his instrument such as the trill key, different headjoints, and different flute bodies.

Ah split E's..

Well when the open G# flutes were converted to closed G#, it was necessary to duplicate and add another tone hole so the fingering system would work. That created an acoustical problem of double venting the High E through the duplicate tone hole to make the Closed G# work. So High E is "By design" acoustically compromised. Because 2 vents are used instead of one, the note is less stable and sharp. Taking your RH pinky off helps lower the pitch. Adding the trill key changes the harmonic content making the note even thinner. The most correct sounding high is the one vented with a split E mechanism. The reason people don't like it, is simply that they expect it to sound the other way. The correct way sounds different than what a lot of people are used too. (like hearing the first equal tempered harpsichord) But the Single Vented High E is a closer tonal match to the other notes near it. leaving only the F# as the oddball.

There is a High F# mechanism but it is so cumbersome that it is not practical. It has been done, but it's not pretty. The same double venting problem occurs for High F#.

Split E is practical acoustically because the mechanism utilized affects only the high E unless you are into multitudinous avante garde techniques.

There are many mechanisms to realize a split E. The most common is the type found on Pearl and others with the long extension arm to the lower G key. (this is also why most flutes have a bit of tubing to the left of F# key...to accommodate a split E if desired..) Best on Offset G with this configuration to avoid the binding problems already mentioned. In-line Split E's can also be accomplished more effectively with the myriad of placement variations for the linkages. These inline versions tend to work best when the clutches are as near the tubing axis as possible to prevent binding. The traditional mechanism design can easily cause binding unless the quality is really first rate.

Do you need it? No, But if you like it, go right ahead. I've used both and all the various types of crescent facilitators/donuts/Fabrizio modifications as well.



Joe B

Well, almost, but not quite exactly...

My present, main flute is the YFL674, with factory split E and no krypto in it. No modification is necessary on the YFL674 (apart from those already made on the trill and the Nagahara HJ, though probably a stronger trill spring could be a little advantage). I can play a decent high E on it "as is" and also I am confident I will soon master the high F# too.

The doubt comes with the backup flute. I am retiring my previous backup flute, a Gemeinhardt M3 with split E, but the student Yamahas I have been considering are more commonly YFL221 (no split E).

Now, if I eventually bought a 221, I did not like it or I had to insert a crescent of whatever material, probably it would have been wiser to buy a 211 with split E from the very beginning.

I still have plenty of time to decide,as I only need it for the summer holidays in July, some opportunity may still show up. I have posted some announcements in my local area, I might receive offers that I could try myself.

And if the British Pound continues to lose value against the dollar and the Euro holds, buying in UK could become more advantageous... How many variables, MG!

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This message should come before JB's, but they crossed in real time. It was intended as an answer to the comments of Tibbie

Micron, yes I have small fingers and no I do not arch my fingers when playing. I play with my finger flat, not pointed over the keys as one should. Funny.. when I talked to other sales reps at flute stores they all said the same thing about other customers complaining about the same thing about the bar on the split E getting in the way. So I guess it is good to know I am not the only one with that complaint.

Nothing was wrong with the flutes that I played with a split E. It is simply the fact that 3 instead of 2 keys go down that makes it seem almost stiff and clunky. I simply do not like them as previously stated. And I do believe we have been over this before in this forum Not everyone is going to like them. To each his own

I play with my finger flat, not pointed over the keys as one should.

Typo: should say: I play with my fingers flat, not pointed over the keys as one should NOT. Yes, you should have have a natural curve to your fingers, like I do, but my fingers are flat over the keys. Nice discussion, but let's please keep in mind that these are all opinions and no one should be made to feel as though their opinion is wrong. There are plus sides to each. Just thought I would add that in there as I know how some of these debates can end up

Sorry, to be excessive with posting but the edit button has seemed to disappear again.

Jose, if you are used to only playing on a flute with a split E then why chance it and get anything else? If you know you like it, you are used to it, then I personally in your situation would just try to find a 211. SInce it is only a backup flute then I don't see it as a big deal, but that is just me.