I have had some fantastic teachers, but I have learned just as much from great singers, cellist, keyboard players, clarinet players, ballet dancers, rock musicians, jazz improv players, etc......to be a great musician, you need to develop your own voice, I have done that by listening to the musicians/artists listed above

Patrick, you are so right, many great players learned from other instrument players or singers, Galway said he learned from opera singers and violinists. That's why his way of playing is more like singing.

One of my teachers is a clarinet professor at local conservatory, her students won many competitions, she taught me analysis on some flute pieces, wow, I was surprised that her details on flute pieces are so fine and vast, she goes into smallest details, even more than the professors at Vienna's music schools. Also, as we know the clarinet don't use vibrato to color the long notes and everything, they use subtle dynamic changes to the maximum. We flute players should learn from other instrumentalists.

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Also a US college flute professor and state auditioner came here every year to teach us, she gave me lessons once every year, she said she knew I learned piano before flute, I asked her how did she know, she said because she was the same, and she said learning piano helped her a lot in her flute playing and analysing the flute pieces as a whole!

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Thanks Bilbo, I'll definitely learn for his books, I heard so much about Boehm. :)

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The music is big, we must have teachers, not just one, but many many many, gee I'm greedy. ;)

Patrick is very right about learning from other instrumentalists. A good Flutist/teacher can teach us how to manage the issues of the flute instrument. This is vital but for other aspects of music we can learn from other musicians as well as flutists. There is one catch, this is that when we learn a flute piece, there may be some history of performance practice that we may want to utilize. This is in regard to how flutists have traditionally performed the piece. Sometimes this fine point is important.

as we know the clarinet don't use vibrato to color the long notes and everything, they use subtle dynamic changes to the maximum. We flute players should learn from other instrumentalists.

The Moyse De La Sonorite is one of the most important books of exercises in this regard As well as others. So too, the outline of De La Sonorite is found in the details of the Boehm Treatise.

Here is one issue that may be important now in comments. It may appear to some that one culture teaches musicality over technical proficiency or another teaches technical proficiency more first in the earlier years of a student's development but many of the top teachers advocate the learning of all aspects at the same time. They believe that this complex variety is important because without balanced instruction and practice we can actually develop a lack of musicality (concern for beautiful tone, well-played phrasing, intonation outside of the equal temperament of the metronome, dynamic balance, expression, a varietal vibrato and such) if the emphasis is continually stressed as a singularity of purpose towards one aspect over the other. Think in this regard that practice is about feeding one's diverse appetite of expressing the true nature of any musical composition as a goal that leads us towards a more positive influence over the listener's appreciation of any musical performance. We wouldn't ever want to work too much in one direction over another no more than we are able to be healthy if we ate only one type of nutrition and avoided the others. An example of this would be if we decided to improve our single tonguing by practicing only repetition of one unison note with a metronome. Nothing else for months. It would be a fact that the musician would most likely progress in their speed and accuracy of playing that one repeated note. However without a balanced diet of study, many other areas of musicality would actually digress. This would be similar to the person who ate only chicken nuggets. Their nutrition is not good and they would become unhealthy. So, the singularity of purpose of the practicing of a player such as Sir James Galway must be towards all facets of the big picture of their abilities on a regular basis. They may stress one thing for a time if they notice a weakness but they'd never want to stress one thing to excess and forsake the other aspects.

yeah, Bilbo, it's so true, but in this world, music world had split into two extremes, according to a research done by some RSM famous violinists:

West - Musicality over Technique

East - Technique first then Musicality

then when Western violin players reach 20 years old, they have full of musical ideas in their head, but they don't have the techniques to express them. and when Eastern violin players reach 20 years old, they have perfect techniques but have nothing in their head to express. This is the two dilemma the world is facing in the past 50 years.

Patrick travels to over the world, he saw this problem also, and he told me in person about this last time, that Asians are like this.

I spent 3 years practiced on tone, then 3 years practiced on etudes, scales and technique, and then 1 year on musicality now. My main teacher is a senior professor of conservatory, she is European from Western world, but she was waiting for me to be proficient in scales, techniques and tone and intonation, and then started to train me musicality since 15 years old last year (before 20). I think now the world realised the problem and started to change that, seems like the new concept is to train players technique first before 16, then musicality from 16 to 20. Then all round from 20 to end of life.

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From Sir Galway's letters on GFC, he said his first teacher taught him musical first, simple tunes, then when he was in Royal School of Music at 16, he was practicing techniques and etudes like crazy with 10000 hours of hard work (before 20 years old). And then from 20 to now he practice fundamentals everyday and also learn musical things. So you see to be successful, technical cannot be ignored.

in this world, music world had split into two extremes, according to a research done by some RSM famous violinists: West - Musicality over Technique East - Technique first then Musicality

I have not seen the quality of this research but their beliefs on the western method is simply flawed or your understanding of their research is flawed.
Perhaps though someday you will begin to understand the importance of approach that I outlined........or not.

.....So you see to be successful, technical cannot be ignored.

This statement that's been made is an example of a missed concept. If you were to fully understand what I've written you may see that every aspect of study shouldn't be ignored in favor of developing one particular one. Again: A balanced diet of practice.

Part of the issue with U.S. musicians is also often misunderstood regarding a very fundamental difference in our general U.S. music education system. This could be perceived as a flaw by outsiders. It is not so simple as this idea that you've latched onto about us but it is a different general direction in purpose of our U.S. music programs. But no matter.

This next sentence may seem unrelated to you but imagine and think about this:
You won't create any good ballerinas in a school for soldiers.

In this respect, what you perceive as two different flaws in our East/West systems may be actually quite similar at their root.

Wow--you guys could go on forevvvvvvvver about this topic....

I think this is a good topic and pertains to both students and teachers/pros as well...

I try to remember this:

Technique is the vehicle for expression and everything is a tone exercise

Thank you teacher Patrick, I will try to remember that for the rest of my life

so true, my assistant flute in youth orchestra has great musicality and full of musical ideas, and he even composes orchestral music, but he lost to me again and again and again in competitions, because he lacks the technique to express the music in his head. At the same time, I am only expressing my teachers ideas during competitions, I have not much in my head, sigh....OK I will remember what you said ,and of course tone is important.

Wow--you guys could go on forevvvvvvvver about this topic....

karinabina7, in a word...YES.
I agree very much with Patrick on these things. These are good topics that we all feel passionate about. Everything IS a tone exercise and a musicality exercise.

For that matter almost everything in music can be considered to be a mathematical experience but if we reduce music to this then the artistic part won't exist. -this is one reason why I mentioned a balanced practice routine. If you want to learn this musicality more Pyrioni, then collect beautiful pieces into a booklet for yourself. Pieces that are adagio, andante, expressive things. Memorize them and study the use of vibrato, tone color, tuning and all manner of expression in these pieces. Moyse published a big book that was probably his own collection of them. (Tone Development through Interpretation). I unwind with a few slower pieces like that at the end of the day. This is usually when my embouchure is ready to work more carefully on developing tone color.

So, we learn from our masters through emulating and through learning what they understand about music. Without a master we have no model to follow. In this regard it isn't bad to question a master if one is respectfully careful in how we ask those questions. Without the questions, we may never come to the answers.

Oh I still have so much to learn....so what else can you tell me?

I'm still on this asking of questions.

The one most important question would be:
What is music?

Then you have to ask, how do we influence people through music? or
In what ways does any music best interact with the listeners?
How do we best do this through playing the flute?
How have others that have been considered great players interacted and performed?
Do we want to follow the traditions that they've set?

Try to organize the issues in your practice.
Fingers, breath, lips, mind (Reading the written notes and understanding of the music being performed.)Once you have separated these issues in your warm-ups and practice exercises, once you have accomplished some measure of improvement on them, then practice pieces that put them all together. But remember music is about sound, about your tone and your musicality. Treat this tone higher on your priority than many younger musicians do.
Your sound and the concept of time is the canvass that your music is painted upon.

Yes, Yes, so right, word of wisdom, thank you Bilbo.

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My teachers and some masters always told me similar things like Bilbo and Patrick's words: Without good technique you can't express good music, but music is more important than technical show off, and tone or sound is like the voice of a singer, if your voice is ugly, no body wants to hear you no matter how well you sing.

...Without good technique you can't express good music, but music is more important than technical show off, and tone or sound is like the voice of a singer, if your voice is ugly, no body wants to hear you no matter how well you sing.

YES! That's the idea Pyrioni. This idea goes a bit back in Western music history really. Quantz mentions it in 1752 book. So does Boehm in his book 130 years later and then also so does Moyse in his writings. All of the great players learn to follow this concept eventually.

Now also how do you know what the listener is hearing? Is their perception different than what you are experiencing with the flute right next to your ears?

also, Is their vantage point better for your performance because they aren't multitasking with playing, preparing, thinking and listening?

Does the average audience person understand the difficulties that you face as a performer? or should they have to adjust their sense of quality because of the particular difficulties that playing the flute encompasses?

Never underestimate the audience's musical education and understanding of quality.

well said Bilbo, I would also add, that after doing many concerts, that the audience wants to be able to digest the notes, be entertained and have them tell you a story...if grandiose technique is part of that, then you have to be able to play that way, but you also need to be able to play softly and whisper...