Can the reed be too soft?

    
Can the reed be too soft?    23:46 on Wednesday, July 26, 2006          

AJ9090
(129 points)
Posted by AJ9090

Title says it. And how would you know? I think one of my reeds is just about dead. how long do reeds last anyway?


Re: Can the reed be too soft?    23:58 on Wednesday, July 26, 2006          

bsnchick
(2 points)
Posted by bsnchick

Bassoon reeds are a little bit different than your average reed. They can be too soft, you want to make sure your reeds, (if you are buying them from a store) are labled meadium, no matter what, even if you are just starting out. To help your reeds last longer, don't over soak them. It's best to use water than saliva to soak your reeds because the saliva will break down the reed faster. It's also a good idea to have a case that allows a lot of air flow. Your reeds can become moldy. Plus, if the reed is allowed to dry out properly, they will last longer. Some people will use those altoid tins (or at least that was what was big when I was in high school, if you do that make sure there are holes in the tin, but your best bet is just for fork out the 5 bucks and get a cheep bassoon reed case. I have had reeds that will last for several months if I take care of them properly. I would also suggest that you find some one who makes reeds and sells them. Your store bought reeds are always more expincive and not worth the money you are buying them for. Even better, if you have a private teacher, make them teach you how to make your own reeds. Then you can ajust them the way you want the reed to play.


Re: Can the reed be too soft?    06:40 on Thursday, July 27, 2006          

bassoonist92
(14 points)
Posted by bassoonist92

when my reed is to soft my attack on the note is quick but HORRIBLY flat. when your reed is to soft it is to hard to control with a good intonation. a good store bought brand is Jones reeds. I will only use Jones because they are as closest as you can get to hand made. Do as bsnchick says and your reed will last.


Re: Can the reed be too soft?    07:35 on Monday, July 31, 2006          

Ruth88
(168 points)
Posted by Ruth88

The reed is generally too soft if you find it difficult supporting the pitch. You need a more controlled embouchure if you play on softer reeds. Though saying that, if you go from a harder reed to a softer reed, it can take a while to get used to them, as I found out from personal experience.
The life of a reed depends on how you treat it. Like others have said, if you dry your reeds out after playing, and soak them properly in water first them they'll last much longer. Though, a bassoonist in the CBSO keeps his reeds in vodka, all the time. This keeps them clean, and tastes nice (apparently). He found that playing in more difficult climates, his reeds behaved as normal while everyone elses were cracking.
Also it depends how skilled with reeds you are. If you haven't been playing long, then chances are you play on the reeds then throw them away. This means that if a reed closes up too much then you can't play on them anymore. So, if you learn more about the reeds and learn to adjust the wires to open it up then the reed is likely to last much longer. You might also want to sand down the blades of the reed with fine wet and dry paper to remove any gunk. And don't forget to clean out the inside of the reed either, that can get nasty.


Re: Can the reed be too soft?    14:58 on Monday, July 31, 2006          

AJ9090
(129 points)
Posted by AJ9090

i'm not exactly sure (and my teacher is gone on a vacation, so i can't ask her till she gets back), but i think the opening on one of my reeds is too far open. how would i know and how could i fix it?


Re: Can the reed be too soft?    17:55 on Monday, July 31, 2006          

Ruth88
(168 points)
Posted by Ruth88

You can tell if the reed is too open just by looking to see how big the gap is. Off the top of my head, I think the ideal gap is about 3mm wide. ish. Or when you play you have to blow really hard to get a sound out, and it often farts out. It's really easy to fix:

The reed is made up of 3 wires - the bottom wire is covered by the binding so there's nothing you can do about that. The top wire controls the size of the opening, and all you have to do is take a pair of small needlenose pliers and squeeze (very very gently, while the reed is wet) the top and bottom side of the wire. Then if your reed is too closed up then do the same but squeeze the other way. simple Although, bear in mind that when you first soak your reed the cane swells so at first it will be more open, but don't adjust it because after a minute or so of playing it'll return to the normal shape. If it doesn't get easier then that's when you squeeze the wires.
While I'm here, the middle wire controls the shape of the neck of the reed. It's a little more complicated, so i'd leave it alone for the moment, but... the shape of the reed (looking across from one end) the tip is flat, the opposite end is completely circular, and the middle is somewhere inbetween. The more rounded the middle of the reed is, the more resistance it has. The more oval the middle of the reed is, the less resistant.

Hopefully i've been of some help


Re: Can the reed be too soft?    16:33 on Tuesday, August 1, 2006          

Drew
(371 points)
Posted by Drew

Hey Ruth, do you make your own reeds? You sound like you know a lot about their construction.


Re: Can the reed be too soft?    07:51 on Wednesday, August 2, 2006          

Ruth88
(168 points)
Posted by Ruth88

I wouldn't say I know loads about reeds. I've been learning for the past 3 months (ish) and all i'm telling you is what I've already learnt. I kinda make my own reeds, but they're not really good enough to play on properly because it takes a lot of practice.


Re: Can the reed be too soft?    10:48 on Wednesday, August 2, 2006          

Drew
(371 points)
Posted by Drew

I've always resisted making my own because of all the initial outlay you have to make in tools, etc. Guess I'm too much of a stingy person to get into that!


Re: Can the reed be too soft?    12:38 on Wednesday, August 2, 2006          

Ruth88
(168 points)
Posted by Ruth88

yeh it can be very very expensive. But it depends on what stage of the reed making process you start at... with the full process you start with the bark, gauge it out, profile it, and shape it. That's where all the mega expensive tools are needed. But you can buy reed canes that are already gauged profiled and shaped, so all you need from then on is the basic reed kit - reed knife, plaque, mandrel, wire, thread, stanley knives are very helpful. I'm from the UK so I don't know if this will be much help, but there's a shop called Howaths in London, it's the best shop to get anything from. It's esp good for double reeds. I got a reed making kit (reed knife, plaque, mandrel, reamer, wire, thread, cutting block, and a book which guides you on how to make them (though not really much substitute for a teacher) all for £80. You can get additional tools... It was my birthday last week and i was bought a tool to cut the tips off my reeds, and a micrometer which measures how thick each individual blade is in different points. Both cost more than £100. You can also get a tip profiler, which saves you loads of hassle with scraping the reed, but those cost somewhere in the region of £600.
One deciding factor really is how much use you'd get out of them in the long term. If playing bassoon is just a hobby and you buy reeds as and when you need them then you might aswel just buy the reeds. But for full time players (like myself, i'm hopefully going to make a career out of playing the bassoon) making batches of your own reeds can be extremely helpful, in both saving money and knowing exactly how to make the reeds the way you want.


Re: Can the reed be too soft?    23:10 on Thursday, August 3, 2006          

AJ9090
(129 points)
Posted by AJ9090

this may have been answered before, but, oh well.

i have 2 reeds. one of them always play flat. notes that people say will always be sharp are very much in tune while the others are nearly a half-step lower. and i can't play as loud on this one. the other plays more in tune and is easier to play louder, but it makes a... vibration-like sound (I don't know how to explain it). These are bothj made by LaVoz. I used Jones at one point, but after about two weeks, i threw it away. I have kept these LaVoz for all of July, but I think they're dying.


Re: Can the reed be too soft?    05:19 on Friday, August 4, 2006          

Ruth88
(168 points)
Posted by Ruth88

From the sounds of it, the first reed you mentioned has probably been constructed so it plays flat (not on purpose of course) It may not be the case if it has been made by a company (though hand made reeds tend to be much better quality) but when you've made the reed you have to test it and cut it to the right length for that particular reed. The way you test it is to put the reed on your bassoon, and play E below middle C. Then you have to lip it down as far as it'll go. After a point it'll break and jump about a semitone. If it jumps really easily then the reed is probably too long, and you should cut off the tip ( not lots though, only about a mm at a time, and not with a pair of scissors like one person did :p)
You have to keep testing it though. If you don't want to risk taking my word for it yet (I can't be sure for obvious reasons) then don't try it. though by the sounds of it it's probably a bit useless if it's always out of tune anyway.
As for the one that has a more vibration like sound... do you mean it's more vibrant, and a harsher sound instead of the mellow more discreet sound from normal reeds? Is it quite unresistant? If it is, then it shouldn't be too hard to improve. As i said in an earlier post, the second wire controls the resistance of the reed. So try very gently squeezing the sides of that wire to make the neck of the reed more rounded. That might help. It only requires very small adjustments, and it's completely reversable (just squeeze the other way instead) If that doesn't work... then... maybe the reed is just softer to what you're used to, and you have to adjust yourself by playing on it more and getting used to it.


q    21:44 on Monday, August 7, 2006          

AJ9090
(129 points)
Posted by AJ9090

for the second reed, i mean it sounds more raspy. for a store bought reed, i've been using medium softs, so about when can i move from med. soft to medium?


Re: Can the reed be too soft?    16:53 on Tuesday, August 8, 2006          

Ruth88
(168 points)
Posted by Ruth88

Hmm, I don't really know without hearing it... have you got a teacher you could ask about it? you could always just mess around and experiment. as long as you have a backup reed.
Bassoon reed strengths aren't like clarinet and saxophone reeds... you don't really start at the lowest number and work up as you get better. It's all about personal preference, so which ever strength reed you find is the most comfortable and makes the best sound for you, use that one. I personally have to use quite soft reeds because anything harder hurts


Re: Can the reed be too soft?    18:53 on Monday, August 14, 2006          

AJ9090
(129 points)
Posted by AJ9090

Ok, today, my teacher "fixed my reed." some higher notes were becoming harder to play, so she did something to it (don't know what) and it was easier to play on, the notes came out better, and would've been in tune, except now, when i play, the reed seems like its too easy to close the opening, so my teeth are pressing down into my lips and it hurts! and if i don't keep my embouchure up, it goes flat. what now?


   








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