"What experience? His daughter is the one that plays, not him."

I would have thought that was pretty obvious....

rjf1205 wrote of his/her LISTENING experience "... Frankly she played it all day today and it was not harsh sounding or shrill at all....both inside and outside the house"

The topic was the SOUND of the metal piccolo, and that was EXACTLY what rjf1205 wrote about.

I realy do have to wonder if your piccolo experience may be quite limited. Experienced people seldom make such dogmatic statements as you have made.

And simple logic says that if SOME people - or even one! - has heard a sweet sounding metal piccolo, then your all-inclusive statement is false!

"...Her instructors taught her never to let the instrument control her, always be in control of the instrument...."

Well said, rjf1205. She must have good instructors.

I agree with you on this one, guest.
I find them very shrill. I can back my opinion up because I do play the piccolo professionaly.
I also agree that Arak is out numbered when it comes to this topic. Sorry, Arak.
We have been through this so many times, so I will just leave it at that.

It doesn`t take rocket scientist to figure out that metal pics are more shrill then wood or plasic ones. Way harder to control too.

It takes no rocket scientist either, to do the research and find that ALL the rigorous comparative studies done on flute materials show that the material is irrelevant. What you or any other individual THINKS on the topic is irrelevant compared with studies done by those who ELIMINATE subjectivity.

BTW, don`t try to pull any `numbers` game with me. Numbers, when it comes to the subjectivity of human beings, is meaningless. The vast majority once thought the earth was flat. The vast majority once thought the sun went round the earth, simply because that was the propaganda of the day. You can throw me in prison as was done with Galileo if you like, but that still does not change fact.

May I politely suggest you do yourself a favour. Do some REAL research on the topic.

Perhaps start with http://ccrma.stanford.edu/marl/Coltman/

Blow it out your ear, Arak! Lol! I know what I hear and so do others. I have been playing long enough to know. So go take all your science BS somewhere else.

WElcome to the Flat Earth Society!

Arak, you must take into consideration that not everyone is going to agree with you. That does not make the other person on the other side always wrong. Why argue it to death? We have a right to our opinions. What I really hate is how scientist conduct study after study. I know what I like. I don`t need some scientist to tell me that what I feel and like is wrong.

It is true that some drivers are More dangerous than others.

It is also true that drivers who are wearing pants are more likely to be dangerous than those who are not.
But it is totally illogical to conclude that all drivers wearing pants are dangerous.

It is also really silly to assume that it is the wearing of the pants that is the cause of the danger, when it is really testosterone that is the problem.

Likewise:

It is true that some piccolos could be described as more shrill than others.

It is also true that some or even many of the shrill ones just happen to be made of metal.

But it is totally illogical to assume that ALL metal piccolos are shrill. I, and at least one other writer here, have the experiential evidence that it is simply not true.

It is also really silly to assume that it is the metal that is the cause of the shrillness, when there are many other factors involved, which almost certainly ARE the cause of the shrillness.

The reason why I keep responding regarding this issue is because of all the misleading illogical and silly stuff being written.

I am prepared to be very broad minded on this issue, but I am not prepared to accept the illogical and silly stuff repeatedly presented as fact to those who probably are not in a position to identify it as such.

There is a lot of ostrich behaviour going on here... People refusing to even consider the evidence of others - some of which has come from far more experienced and knowledgeable people than any that I am aware of in this forum, including myself.

Yes, we are all entitled to opinions, but they are only opinions until there is rigorous evidence that demonstrates what is fact and what is closer to belief, or simply somewhat limited experience. People are criticising me for presenting some items that are KNOWN as fact, while they defend their OPINIONS in exactly the same way as the flat earth believers defend theirs.

Could we please just start considering what science and robust testing say, and recognise that personal opinions are likely to carry a lot less weight in the area of real truth. Before you automatically condemn the science and testing, be aware that top musicians, almost certainly a lot better than I am and probably also you, have been involved in many of these robust tests.

Unless we can recognise these things, and also shonky logic and silly conclusions, it is impossible to begin to have a sensible discussion. An opinion does not become anywhere near fact until it can stand all scrutiny that it is subject to. Some people here are refusing to allow any scrutiny. They want to bathe in relative ignorance - a form of defence, rather than a seeking of truth. It does not matter how many times a person keeps repeating the same opinion, it does not bring it any closer to having congruence with known facts.

The biggger issue here is not piccolo material, but whether questionalbe opinion, that does not stand up to known facts - facts acording to the present well developed knowledge of mankind - should have the freedom to present them UNCHALLENGED as facts when there are almost certainly naive people present, who are searching for vlaid information. Valid information surpasses opinions in its usefulness. It is small minded to totally rubbish the valid information on a topic without even seriously considereing it.

I am not prepared to name names, because my memory for names is so poor that most of the time I don`t remember from one hour to the next who has written what in a forum. This is why I respond to CONTENT, not who is writing.

So you see, nothing personal.

Look, I think that when it comes to anything subjective, beauty is in the eye, or in this case ear of the beholder. The piccolo sounds wonderful and she just had her first practice with her summer concert band. If I had the means, I would post it here, buts its a rather large video file. There was an unusual development though. Another band member had the same piccolo she did and it sounded horrible. The exact same model. The girls, my daughter and her band member friend played them after practice and compared them. The other piccolo which was the same model Armstrong just sounded raspy, shrill and windy. My daughter took the girls piccolo and substituted her head joint and played it. It played absolutely fine. The girl played my daughters piccolo with her headjoint and it played horribly. So we assumed it was something to do with the head joint. Later that day, They both were playing their piccolos and apprently got them mixed up by accident. We were able to determine which was which by their serial numbers. The lesson here was that it was not the piccolo at all, it was the player. Now i also concur that I have heard some mighty fine wood piccolos and both I and my daughter loved the way they sounded. However, she is also 14 and depending on how things go, she can grow into better and more specific piccolos as she gets older and more proficient. Currently she is going to be using this piccolo for Marching band, concert band, and she was invited to try out for the wind ensemble for both piccolo and flute as a Freshman, which is a wonderful honor for her. Normally this is reserved only for exceptional juniors and seniors. She also really prefers the key layout on this piccolo compared to Gemeinhardt and Yamaha. Most importantly, she chose it because she liked it and because of that, she plays it with confidence already. Isn`t that something that every musician wants to achieve with their instruments?

I don`t quite follow.

Are you saying that you were not able to tell them apart (by playing) after the muddle, and had to resort to serial numbers?

I`m saying that both piccolos sounded fine. It was the musician. My daughter played both instruments without difficulty and her friend could not yet she was also an accomplished piccolo player for her age group. What I have since learned is that her friend recently had braces installed and that has affected her playing.

that I am trying to say that the sound one hears being played is nearly always subjective. As a damn proud father, I can honestly say that I may be prejudcial when it comes to my daughter. I do realize this about myself and actually try and compensate by being critical of her when she practises. Sometimes I am too critical, but often she listens to what I suggest and is all the better for it. I admit this freely and realize its implications. That said, I do believe that if anyone has confidence in their instrument and in their capabilities at what ever skill level they are at, they can play wonderfully. I have heard people make a tin whistle sound as melodic as a gold flute. I have recently heard someone play a crystal flute (cost $39.99) and make such beautiful sounds. I have heard Eric Clapton play a $59.99 harmony guitar (some 10 odd years ago) and make it sound far better then it had any right too. An exceptional musician can make anything they have the ability to play sound good, an adequate musician relies more on the instrument then on their skill.

I have the impression that in this forum, when people give their opinions on various instruments, comments are VERY highly tainted with subjectivity.

Unfortunately the same people tend to vociferously poo-poo any results of rigourous testing (much of it also by top musicians) that removes this subjectivity.

So it is hard to get balanced, sound advice from a forum such as this.

I also get the impression that you, Arak loves pick apart what anyone else has to say just to disagree with it. Then you add your science BS into it. Hmm... quite tiresome if you ask me.

It is interesting that you are so very, very derogatory towards science, yet your way of life is drenched in the products of science pretty well every second of the day, form the sophisticated fabrics you wear, to the lights in your house, to your mode of transport, any medication you have taken, your BIC pen, your use of a computer... The list is endless.

Why does science suddenly become total trash when it pertains to design of instruments? The FACT is that it is simply NOT total trash!

I simply cannot follow what is going on in your head. But have a happy day :-)