Lol, Mrs. C! I do that myself sometimes with the piccolo. They do make them with a C foot or B foot now, which you probably have already seen.

It is like putting a D foot on a flute, I wonder when it will ever end.

Paul,

In your price range of $1500, you shoud be able to purchase one of many fine instruments new or used.

One thing you failed to mention, does your daughter need or desire a "new" instrument, or will a better quality (but used) instrument fill the bill?

A thirteen year old may react differently to a used instrument than a new one without telling you. I think that needs to be addressed. Talk it over with her before buying.


There is an excellent guide to upgrades on the Gemeinhardt site

http://www.gemeinhardt.com/how/upgrade.html

Titled:

Upgrading from the Student Model Flute to a Conservatory or
Professional Model Flute



It discusses in detail B-foot, open hole, and other topics.



Re: the Sonare... its possible that Powell is trying to develop "brand loyalty" by making an entry level instrument for the upgrading student. Whereas, for decades, the thought of a high school student owning a Powell was out of the question. Just like buying Fords and Chevys, once a Powell owner, you may be hooked and upgrade to a custom model later. There is also a certain amount of snob appeal which can be pretty important to a young musician and her peers. But remember, Chevy makes the Corvette and they make the Tracker.

The Sonare, a fine instrument, is about on par with others in the same price range. It is a light year leap to a rose gold custom Powell. I have seen them on the web, used for $1000.

When you start buying flutes with custom headjoints, you are going to need the assistance of an advanced player. The head joints for beginner flutes are easy to play but have bland tone. When you get into advanced head joints, most younger players do not have the pressure and the embouchure to handle the advanced cut of some of the tone holes. Custom head joints need to be tried on the instrument they will be used on, and by a player that understands the differences.

I would have your daughter try out some flutes to see what is comfortable with her. Call the dealer and arrange to cover up the name plates with tape so she just listens and feels the flute without brand influence. Be sure to take along her current instrument so she can hear the difference in the same room.

You have lots of choices, but there are some value priced quality instruments in your price range I would certainly look at.

Remember, street prices may vary as much as 40% under list.

Gemeinhart, Heritage(by Armstrong), Haynes, Yamaha, Altus, Powell

Go to the web sites and look for conservatory or professional models. Note the model numbers for the features she needs or wants. Like the Powell, just because it says Powell or Haynes or Gemeinhardt, doesn`t make it a professional model and there is a world of difference.


If your daughter will accept a used flute, you might also check out:

http://www.usedflutes.com/

RE: B foot - the fourth octave is unreachable without the b-foot.
Treble High C is way off pitch without the b-foot.
Times I`ve actually played treble high C or higher (fourth octave) in concerts,= hundreds.
Times it could be heard over the orchestra. Every time.
Times I`ve played Low B in concerts in forty six years of playing flute, once.
Times It could be heard - once, it was a solo.
Flutes I would buy today without a B-foot = none.


Open hole is generally thought to be louder. (That will open a can of snakes.)
Offset G makes no acoustical difference. It`s just comfy.
Split e = knock yourself out. doesn`t make much difference to me. others will argue.
New scale A442 = pull the head joint out a little for richer tone and still be in tune with the orchestra playing at
A440

Old Scale (a440) some have said the old scale instruments are out of tune in the upper register. I never heard Rampal or Galway play out of tune on old scale flutes. I never got fired for being out of tune on my old scale.


Hope this helps


John Pitkin
Greenville, TX

I´ve heard that Palmer flues r pretty good...Though I haven´t had one myself...

Paul

I suggest not to consider a second hand flute, if you and your daughter are not familiar with the instrument. Buying a brand new instrument somehow will give you a sense of security and in fact it will come with a warranty. Otherwise, bring a friend who can play flute well or your daughter`s teacher to test play any used instruments for you.

In addition, ask the teacher whether you should go for a B or C foot flute. I guess the teacher will have an idea about what sort of music and study materials your daughter will come across in her learning and thus if she needs a B foot flute or not.

There are 2 issues in regard to a B foot flute: 1. it is dearer than a C foot model and may cause the price go over your budget. 2. a B foot flute is slightly heavier and longer than a C foot model, which could be a disadvantage for some junior players. It is very difficult for a young person to prolongedly hold a heavy instrument and may cause more harm than benefits to the young players.

Good luck.

Paul

I agree to the idea suggested by others about using a quality headjoint on a basic model body. However, you may need to consider the following:

1. the cost of a brand new pro level headjoint eg Muramatsu, Altus or Sankyo etc is not cheap at all and will easily go over $1500.

2. to customise your flute with a different headjoint and body can easily cost more.

3. Many students will find Powell Signature Headjoint quite easy to manage but they will struggle with many other pro headjoints eg may find the tone of lower notes sound much better but fail to play any higher notes at all because of the strict demand for embrochure control etc.

Those headjoint prices are a little inflated...

Muramatsu, Powell, and Sankyo silver headjoints could be had for $800 new and maybe less with some haggling. Adjustment is generally free with the headjoint purchase.

Non-handmade headjoints such as Yamaha, Gemeinhardt, Jupiter, etc offer silver heads for around $500-600 new.

I purchased a rather unique handmade silver Natsuki headjoint for recently for $650.

John, I like most of your comments.

However "RE: B foot - the fourth octave is unreachable without the b-foot."

I do not have a B foot, and have no problem playing my Muramatsu to 4th octave F.

"Treble High C is way off pitch without the b-foot."

I can easily play that C in tune relative to the C an octave below. I wonder if your experience has been with incorrectly putting the low C key down for this note with a C foot. That would greatly sharpen the note.

I realise that you are probably a very experienced flute player, but if these are really your findings with a low C flute, then my first reaction would be to wonder if you need further development of breath pressure and embouchure. However if that were the case, you would almost certainly have a preference for split E. You certainly have me mystified.

Perhaps we can just put this down to experience with different models of flute, or simply personal differences.

Thank you for taking the time to write all of that, John.

We think a like when referring to the B foot. You make some really great points.

I have been trying to find one to put on my backup flute. It has a C foot, and whenever I play it, I am always reaching for the B.

I have heard of people actually putting a plastic tube on the end of a C foot in order to hit the B.
Just plain ridiculous in my opinion.

It`s not ridiculous if it works, and if it avoids the need to pay extra for something very rarely used. I have never had the need for a B foot, and I am not prepared to spend the money on something I don`t consider neccesary. I really fail to see what your problem is with it Kara.

No what`s ridiculous is people thinking they absolutely NEED a b-foot. You don`t need it! Like the comment on how you couldn`t get the fourth octave notes out without a C-foot. That`s stupid, it has nothing to do with the level of the flute if it`s in proper working order it`s just a matter of the player. It`s just an accessory for one note and wow you can get a gizmo key too. I think people make much too big of a deal about having to have a B-foot for a professional flute.

When you play professionaly, I find it a must. If you don`t then, I guess that is where someone might fail to understand.

Choose what you would like. There is no wrong and no right in this case.

There are very predjudicial flutists in the world that will cast judgement on a person based on the flute that they pull out of their case...

Even if your flute were made by the hands of God himself when you pull out a flute that lacks silver (head tenon), open holes, or B foot there are many who would pass judgement on SIGHT and the flutist must play damn well in order to overshadow such pre-judgement.

A B-foot is really such a minor thing and is relatively inexpensive on an intermediate flute that the benefit of the 1 note, resale value, and the respect that a little extra length gives is certainly worth it.

I wouldn`t want to walk on stage with a C foot flute after someone with a B foot flute... lol

Paul,

You asked about Sonare flutes, and the suitability for your daughter.
Let`s not lose the focus of the discussion.

First... what doesn`t matter.

We are not discussing my ability or the merits of a B foot, C foot or a split E. Certainly any student with over ten years playing will have no problem reaching fourth octave notes, or popping in and out of an E; however, that is usually not the case for a freshman in high school. My opinion with high school students is, for the most part, stay out of the fourth octave. Most can`t reach it on key. Those with B foot flutes, seem to do better. (None have owned Muramatsu`s with a C foot, so I can`t opine on that.) Perhaps it is because the B foot flutes (and their head joints) are generally, but not always, better quality. You don`t see Bundy`s with a B foot. But you will see Haynes with C foot. So,… It doesn`t matter that three of my flutes don`t have a split E. It doesn`t matter that two of them have a c foot and two have a B. I like them all.


Anyway, let`s get off that subject, or start a new thread, if you like.


The real question is whether the group would recommend a particular flute, a Sonare, to an up and coming intermediate student just entering high school?

You didn`t say how many years your daughter has studied, but we can assume she is looking for a better flute because she has advanced to the stage where she requires one.

It does matter, that, a thirteen year old with limited pressure and embouchure development have all the help she can get for the ease of playing, confidence, pitch, good tone and color. She is entering a competitive arena, probably for the first time in her life, and her ability will be critically judged by educators and by mercilessly by her peers.

So to get back on focus, and on topic, Do I think the Sonare would be suited for her? Perhaps,... if she tries it out and compares it to others. If she likes it above all others, and Dad can afford it, go for it.

Do I think a new Sonare is overpriced for a Taiwan import and riding on the Powell name? Personally, yes. Largely, the market supports my opinion with some prices for used Sonares less than $1000. I don`t see other Powells going for half the list price. But that is a decision the purchaser must make for themselves. Value, like art appreciation, is largely perceived.

Are there many options available? Certainly.

The direction I would like to steer you and your daughter is to a major flute dealer that has lots of instruments to try. You may need to take along her flute teacher or other experienced flautist to aid in the tryouts. Have the daughter try them and have the pro play them, too. Depending on where you live, that may not be possible. If the travel distance is too great to drag along another player, then be sure to get a contract with a return period.

Please understand, you do not take the other player along as a decision maker; but as a trial performer who can play the instrument over its range. Then you and your daughter can hear the differences when your daughter plays it, and when the other performer plays it.

I would have no qualms about buying a used instrument from a reputable dealer. Most good dealers go over the instrument and back it with a warranty. It may be a way to obtain an outstanding instrument that would otherwise be out of price range.

Any internet sale should have provisions to have the instrument checked out, and a return period in the agreement.

Certainly, you would love to be able to buy your daughter any of the great flutes available,… Powell, Muramatsu, Altus, Haynes... but there is that annoying thing called a mortgage.


So rather than get involved with emotions and personal preferences, I offer the above as guidance, and by all means, enjoy the process of finding a new instrument.

John Pitkin
Greenville, TX

"Let`s not lose the focus of the discussion."

Let`s not repeat ourselves. The discussion of a new flute has moved on to whether a specific foot joint should be avoided.

While you may not appreciate the further discussion of a foot joint. It is, apparently, an argumentative subject that certainly deserves discussion... especially when people are emphatically advising against purchasing a C or B foot.

When you play professionaly, I find it a must. If you don`t then, I guess that is where someone might fail to understand.


Remember that we`re talking about a flute for a thirteen year old. She is not a professional and I originally advised that a B foot was not neccesary for precisely that reason. If, at some point in the future she wishes to go on to music college and higher level performance then she can make the choice to upgrade accordingly. But for a young girl, I don`t consider it a necessary expense.