Another thought,
Before you do any pad work, make sure that the F# key cup has not been bent. If the pad is up in the back, the key cup may have taken a hit and could be down in the front.
The bottom of the cup as is the pad should be on the same plane as the key hole when it is closed.
~Bilbo
N.E. Ohio

Lol!!! No, Micron that picture of the flutist was not me, it is just an art photo. I wish it were, she is pretty!

I assure you, my embouchure is much better then that. It better be!

Oops, wrong post, sorry.

OK. Thank you both, Bilbo and Micron.

I wouldn`t like to make anybody nervous about my trying to service things beyond my capacity. I have received lots of help, what-to-do and what-not`s, it`s not so much dangerous and in any case it is may risk and decision to go further or when to stop.

I post because I like to hear different opinions (and you can bet they are different!).

Micron:
I do not agree with this: I do not think I might be mucking up my Flute, at least not in the sense my Collins dictionary gives to that term (spoiling). I could, OK, but so far I`ve solved a few problems and I`m satisfied with what I did so far.
But as an opinion from an expert, I do take it in consideration.

I like to learn, I had visited other forums (incl. probirt) and took some ideas,including the light test from those sites. Of course it`s not enough.

Thank you again for the contact in Spain. Just know that Herman is in Cadiz, some 600 Km from where I am, so it`s difficult to have it checked quickly. I have emailed him, anyhow.

I`m sorry for the time spent in writing the lost post. It`s not rare, however (at least to me) and I suppose that all those who are in Forums have the patience and are prepared for this (and several other) inconveniences. They are also willing to give part of their time for free and for the pleasure of helping others.

Maybe I can give you a trick this time: for possible long posts, I copy the text on my email client (i.e. Eudora), mainly to spell check it before posting and also for ease in writing anfd following on`e thread.

But this also keeps a backup of the text. Right now I could have lost this post because of the same problem with log-in but it`s still in Eudora.

One problem with this Forum, is that sometimes the log-in period is too short so it`s no surprise one is log-off while writing, without knowing.

ADMIN should have a look at the auto log-off configuration

I participate in forums of other domains, where I`m no beginner as here, but I am considered to be an expert. I do like that feeling of being helpful, even to audacious beginners.

For all you participation in so many threads and those I have started, you have demonstrated that you are of this kind too.

The book you mention is indeed expensive (listed at 73$ + shipment). Although it covers all woodwinds and not only the flute, I will consider buying it.

Bilbo,

The information about using feelers instead of light and how to shim (if I ever decide to proceed) is very useful. In my case it was very simple to test with sunlight (from outside and looking inside) and I only found one pad with bad closing. Even if I take the instrument to an expert, it`s good to know in advance what could be wrong and what maybe not be.

Using a small light from inside in a dark room is a "brilliant" idea (no jk). "My" method of using an external light and looking inside is good for short-sighted people as you cannot wear glasses to check this way. Also the rh position is a little awkward if you want to press the keys with fingers (and one needs a third hand to shadow a zone of a pad)

I`m almost sure the instrument has not received any blow. I care of it as much as I can. When I dis-assembled the bank to check the pads, the circles were a little fuzzy but did not seem to be damaged. Also the hole rings are OK and I cannot think of a reason for them being unleveled (from factory, it shouldn`t have worked for 3 years)

Also, it cannot be a screw adjustment issue. The hole can be closed by pressing directly on it (not through the E / F keys) and the result is the same. There is no side slop movement; the bank is fixed with a pivot screw that is adjusted exactly to the point there is no side slop but the bank still turns freely.

I think it comes to pad shimming. I await a response from the technician Micron has given me and will decide what to do. I will post any results, good or bad.

I`m curious to know what "lo / lol" mean. Can`t figure out what words it abbreviates.

jose_luis,

I`m going to repeat something of a disclaimer here.
The average person by far in my area doesen`t have the ability or equipment to do repairs on a flute so don`t even try.

LOL means: Laugh Out Loud or Laughing out Loud.
A diminutive of the more profane/profound: -ROTFLMAO or Rolling On The Floor Laughing My `buttocks` Off.

Keeping in mind that if Micron is who I think he is (Changes names often so I could get confused) he is very qualified as a technician.....
Another point about seating that pad properly is that you may live in an area where there isn`t a very qualified repair technician. If this is the case, taking the flute to someone who is going to really muck it up and charge you for it will not be the best thing.


It seems as if you understand a bit about the mechanism. One point is that if you don`t loose parts, strip the threads on the screws, bend or dent something beyond repair or break off a spring, most issues can be fixed. Even those can be fixed... If the worst is that you misalign a pad, a repair person can fix that in a jiffy.


~Bilbo
N.E. Ohio

Oh Micron,
I`ve had the log in issue happen twice now.
I discovered that if the forum says that I need to log in, I hit the back button and repost the message (that I didn`t really loose), it works the second time. Weird and mucked up forum...
~Bilbo
N.E. Ohio

Thanks Bilbo. Everything you say is taken in due account.

lol was a little hard to figure out. As for ROTFLMAO, well, it made me rotflmao to know its meaning.

I think that soon a special dict will be necessary to follow all this abbrs. (or it exists already?).

Same thing is happening here in Europe with the SMS (Short Message System) of the GSM mobile telephone.

It`s cheap, trendy and extremely popular, particularly among youths. But as writing a normal message just with the tiny number push buttons is a little awkward, a whole new language was invented, so short and concise (for ex., almost no vowels in it) that it is very difficult to understand for outsiders. Maybe the same is going on in the USA, I don´t know.

Concerning the losing of replies, I think it`s a real issue.

There are a few instances where you can lose your text. The most frequent (for me) is coming back to check the original text you want to reply to, but it`s on another page of a multiple-page thread (like this thread). There`s no way to come back to the text you were writing. It`s lost, no matter you were logged-in or not.

In other forums the original post that one is replying to is kept visible and so there`s no need to navigate back and forth.

With Firefox (which I always use), there is a solution, that is, opening the page you want to check in a separate Tab. But one can forget to do it, or do it wrongly or something else can go wrong.

Apart for copying the text on a word processor or mail client, the only recipe is to be very patient...

Well here`s one place for enlightenment:
http://www.netlingo.com/lumenu2.cfm?category=Chat+Acronym

But this kind of slang is always evolving nd morphing into what`s pop or new.

Sometimes in a Forum, I open the message into another window. Right click and then open a seperate window for the response. On this folrum I do a Ctrl A/ Ctrl C to keep my response from being deleted if this is going to be the way it is.

~Bilbo
N.E. Ohio

OK, I see it comes from chat sites. I did not know that (I have not used thos sites so far). Very good reference; will be very useful.

I do not get "right click and open a new page for the reply". It does not work w/Firefox, Are you on IE?

I don`t get a new page from the Reply button. I get a new parallel page or tab from the main forum page. http://www.8notes.com/f/forum25.asp

I use Netscape but I think IE works about the same.

~Bilbo
N.E. Ohio

Micron: "Yes, Bilbo, I am who you think I am. I hope the need for further name change does not occur. There seems now to be some life and control in the administration of this forum."

For this we are very greatful!!! I hope you don`t have to change names again, but even if you do, I`m pretty sure I`ll still be able to tell it`s you!

<Added>

COOL!!!! An editing button!!!

Thanks again Micron.

I had my weekly class today and the flute still sings but at the limit of acceptability for a student at my level. I haven´t done anything additional, I`m a little scared (well, not much).

I still await the answer from Herman. My teacher confirmed that there are some technicians here in Madrid, all related to music stores but none is to be specially recommended. And they are all expensive and will take the instrument for several days. She said that if I can wait, better leave this for the summer holidays so that I do not have to skip classes.

I also visited 3 music stores to know prices and availability of an intermediate flute.

Compared to Internet US prices, it seems that here everything is considerably more expensive. When I complete this first magazine tour, I will post for opinions on the affordable alternatives I find.

As for the book, as I said, I may buy it in the near future. I will also visit saxontheweb, I find all those sites very interesting.

For the moment I would like to investigate the pad setting issue. You say that light test is not good for translucent pads. Mine are skin pads. I did not note they could be translucent. Are they?

Testing the pad with a feeler 0.02mm is obviously a safe and non-destructive test. I will check (with a micrometer I inherited from my father) different kind of papers to see if one approaches that thickness. Otherwise I`ll buy a commercial metal feeler (if I find one). I`m not yet decided to shim the pad.

Of course I am eager to ask so many questions. But I try to refrain to avoid abusing too much of the time of others.

However, there`s something that keeps turning in my head I would like to ask you and/or other people in the Forum. It´s concerning the cork position.

The problem is that, (according to the method I was told here is normally used to check its position) it seems not to be in the right position:

When I test with the mark on the cleaning rod (its tip touching the cork), is it correct that the mark should appear in the middle of the blow hole?

In my case it`s 3 mm off, in direction of the crown (the cork seems to be positioned too far from the blowing h.)

Now, it is like glued in its place, it will not move with the force I dare to apply and I do not think I could have moved it accidentally. Therefore it must be there from factory, as I bought the instrument brand new.

However, were it not in the right position, would this affect the first octave more than the third?

My instrument sounds pretty good (brilliant and loud and (I believe), intone starting on the second G and up (the G immediately on top of the staff). On the contrary it has always been rather weak in the low octave (even considering I`m not very advanced).

And it has got worst in the last weeks. I can still play it, but this is increasingly difficult and everything (embouchure, position, finger pressure, etc.) must be "at my level of perfection" to be able get a reasonably good sound.

You said that the cork should be at the left end of the head. Should I take it literally or you meant "near" that end?

Any hints concerning the cork position?

Jose_Luis:

"
Compared to Internet US prices, it seems that here everything is considerably more expensive. "
HEre in the U.S. the store prices are closer to retail because they pay more for buying in less quantity. So, they need some profit margin. The advantage in buying in a local store is that they are more ready to do repairs and honor warrantys. The disadvantage is you pay more.

"
Thanks again Micron.

I had my weekly class today and the flute still sings but at the limit of acceptability for a student at my level. I haven´t done anything additional, I`m a little scared (well, not much).

I still await the answer from Herman. My teacher confirmed that there are some technicians here in Madrid, all related to music stores but none is to be specially recommended. And they are all expensive and will take the instrument for several days. She said that if I can wait, better leave this for the summer holidays so that I do not have to skip classes.

I also visited 3 music stores to know prices and availability of an intermediate flute.

Compared to Internet US prices, it seems that here everything is considerably more expensive. When I complete this first magazine tour, I will post for opinions on the affordable alternatives I find.

As for the book, as I said, I may buy it in the near future. I will also visit saxontheweb, I find all those sites very interesting.

"For the moment I would like to investigate the pad setting issue. You say that light test is not good for translucent pads. Mine are skin pads. I did not note they could be translucent. Are they?"

Your pads can let some light pass through them. Particularly when doing a light test. When I do it, the small light has to be close to the screw that holds the pad in the key cup so that an even amount of light is spread around the seal area of the pad. It works fairly well for me as long as I can see the circumference of the pad well. On the F# key the view may be obscured by other keys. If there is a leak, you may actually be able to see the bulb or you may just see a brighter area.

With feelers, I have seen the use of cigarette paper slivers or wedges. Cut a piece about 15mm wide by 50mm long from ungummed area of fresh cig. paper. I wouldn`t recommend a feeler gauge like for setting spark plug gaps. They are metal and may damage the pad or scratch the metal on the hole. Remembering that you are not measuring a thickness per-se but resistance to pulling it out from the lightly closed pad. It takes practice and the important thing is to hold the pad with the same amount of pressure each time you remove the paper.

I would suggest using both a paper feeler and a light if you have one to see which one you like and to compare if you are getting the same results.

Another way of testing the pads is by play testing. When you close a pad fairly slowly. (Say from G to F#) the change should be sudden and not mushy. soft or diffuse. Both tones should have a good solid quality and not sound fuzzy. This assumes that the player can get a good tone quality to begin with. One can`t jsut test a note with most fingers down because it is difficult then to determine if a pad is leaking and which one is the culprit. This test should be done by starting with a C#, making sure that the trill keys close well first and then dropping one finger at a time. C/B/ Bb/A etc. There are some issues with figuring out some of the notes or pads but it helps to determine leaks.

"However, were it not in the right position, would this affect the first octave more than the third? "

This affects tuning throughout similar to the effect of moving the bridge on a stringed instrument. If you play a note with few fingers down (C), the tuning will be different than a note with several fingers down(E). It affects the whole scale and not just one area. The looseness of the cork can also affect tone quality. Make sure that your tuning/cleaning rod is the correct one for the instrument. If from the factory it should be. If the store owner sold you one, maybe not accurate. Generally the distance from the end of the cork stopper metal disk to the center of the embouvchure blow hole on your instrument is 17.3mm. This should be the distance on the tuning line from the end of the rod.
Smme of the corks can get tight. I hope that they don`t glue them in. It may be possible to soak the head joint and cork in hot water for a time to move the cork but you may then have to replace the cork if it leaks or becomes loose. A loose cork is a rather common problem. Galway`s brand new and very expensive Nagahara flute has one already.


~Bilbo
N.E. Ohio

OK, thanks.

The rod is original and came in the flute`s box. The instrument was purchased by a friend in Miami,I do not know whereexactly . He is a professional basson player and I can supose he bought at a serious place. But I cannot guarantee it and Ido not have the invoice anymore.

I measured the rod mark with a caliper and it does make 17.3mm from the tip.

The blow hole has 12mm long (in the sense of the instrument axe)x 10mm wide. The rod mark is seen at 3,5 mm measured from the left border (at the hole center this would be 6mm).

Now, (and I know it might be difficult to answer yes or no), should I try to correct the cork position?

Now Micron,
I meant to say that the 15mm wide end tapers over the 4 or 5 cm to 0mm at the other end. I think my teacher used cig paper because it was handy from pad cleaning and more fragile. Thus tearing away before the pad surface.
~Bilbo
N.E. Ohio