So, circular breathing is when you play(blow) your instrument while inhaling through the nose? And have air in your cheeks,..and you use it when you don`t have any air left.? If that`s how you circular breathe..that`s hard.:0

that`s about it schoolgirl. You use the air that is in your cheeks by contracting your cheek muscles to steadily push it out of your mouth while inhaling through your nose.

-Dennis

Re: "Don`t be cutting down Kenny G. Just because you have a favorite sax player who likes to cut others down, don`t get in on their bad habits."

I don`t know that Wayne Shorter has ever commented publicly about Kenny G. I mention Wayne Shorter merely because he is one of the most famous (among persons who know anything at all--to speak of--about jazz, that is) and accomplished soprano saxophonists. I might have mentioned Ernie Watts instead. If I wanted to be historical, I might have mentioned Sydney Bechet. I avoided mentioning John Coltrane because, although he was obviously a brilliant exponent of the instrument he had certain technical deficiencies, and I didn`t want the discussion to be diverted because of these.

In any case, Pat Methany certainly HAS commented publicly about Kenny G. I think his remarks are well considered, accurate, and apposite, and if you`re interested I can find an Internet link for you.

Re: "You had to go and cut him [Kenny G.] down like he doesn`t deserve to be where he is.

He doesn`t. He is an insult to jazz--and music in general. I find him deeply offensive.

Re: "I have never heard of who you just mentioned, so I am guessing he hasn`t got the rep. of being the all-time greatest selling instrumentalist. My bad!"

This is a stupid expression, but, yes, if you’ve not heard of Wayne Shorter, your "bad". Give him a listen sometime and let him be your “good”.

Ok..I downloaded three of his songs (paid a dollar apiece for them just so you know), and I would like a refund of my three dollars. I HATE OLD JAZZ. Every single person you mentioned is old jazz. You have to understand things about music. It`s an ever-changing industry where one day The Andrew Sisters are the days Pop Stars, then one day it`s Tiffany, then Britney Spears. Music changes. Jazz changes. Of course you`re going to knock down Kenny G, and I am sure Dave Koz, maybe even Grover Washington, Jr. These people play the jazz you dislike. So of course their technique is horrible to you because I am sure you went to school (assuming you have gone to college) for Jazz Sax or Jazz Flute. They don`t teach anything modern in those classes. It`s all brainwashed Jazz from over 50 years ago (I am talking about the style here). They make you believe that that is the ONLY jazz. Jazz is all about interpretation. Kenny G does not claim to be a Jazz Saxophonist. You can ask him yourself, and he would not classify his music as that. He doesn`t classify his music at all. I like the modern spins he puts on the older stuff he did. The older jazz has been done and redone so many times that I can hardly care about it anymore. I like it when people put their own style into the music they are playing, and actually BREAK the rules of classical and jazz interpretation. To me, THAT is what makes a true musician.

BTW, I wonder what Mozart`s Concerto in D would sound like jazzed up a bit? Maybe we can get the G man to pull out the Wind Machine and do it! HAHAHAHAH!!!! <Sinister evil glares>

-Dennis

Lol Dennis! I can`t beleive you even respond to his posts, most people don`t even bother with him. I know I try not to.

Well, Kara. You know that Old Jazz is the bomb-diggety...ROFL. I can`t believe I respond to him either. Depends on my mood also sometimes!

-Dennis

In general professional musicians refrain from expressing publicly their dislike, disdain, or contempt for other professional musicians. You’re welcome to consider that admirable forbearance if you like, but clearly it has less to do with propriety than with economic reality: It simply isn’t generally worth alienating that portion of your audience that might be responsive to these other musicians. Miles always spoke his mind, but he was exceptional in that regard. I found Pat Metheny (yes, two e’s, sorry) forthright when I talked to him in private, but he’s certainly no Miles. No, Kenny G. particularly provoked him. Kenny G. is a provocation to any musician who cares deeply about music, and I and many others believe that Metheny evinced praiseworthy courage. In any case, I’m just now returning from Metheny’s website with an example of how he customarily negotiates an evaluation of musicians to whom he is less than sympathetic (as am I in this particular case, as it happens)—I mean Rush, of course, NOT the great Bill Watrous.
__________________________________________________________
Question: Just for my own personal curiosity, I was wondering what you think about two musicians/groups. Those two being the Canadian rock band Rush and jazz trombone player Bill Watrous. I assume you`ve heard of Bill Watrous, but wouldn`t be surprised if you hadn`t. His recent album "Bone-ified" is wonderful. Before I started listening to you and more recently Gabriel Faure, Rush and Bill Watrous were my two biggest influences. Watrous is a very melodic soloist who has an amazing tone and has killed the old thought that trombone players can`t play fast and make it sound good. As for Rush, I`ve always loved their lyrics and especially Neil Peart, their drummer. In the 25 or so years he`s been with Rush, I`ve only heard Peart repeat and handful of his fills which really says something about his creativity. Anyway, just wondering what you thought about these musicians.

Pat`s Answer: hey jeff,
well, you get the award for "most eclectic" listener for this session!
bill watrous is an amazing musician who i have followed since the late sixties when i first heard him play. i agree that he is one of the greatest trombone players ever with an absolutely gorgeous sound and skill as a player.
rush, on the other hand, is a band that i know nothing about. they are a little like the grateful dead for me in that i know there are millions of people who love them, but i never really got the urge to go deep into their thing based on what i had heard of it - but probably i never heard the right stuff at the right time in my life.
but i think it is cool that they are your two favorite artists!

Re: “Ok..I downloaded three of his songs (paid a dollar apiece for them just so you know), and I would like a refund of my three dollars.”

I’m encouraged that you’ve made some effort at least. There may be hope for you yet. I won’t refund your money. You needn’t have spent anything. A trip to your public library might have sufficed. Of course, in this case you would not have been able to proffer an instant evaluation--as I certainly did not expect you to--, but I rather think that would have been so much the better.

Re: “I HATE OLD JAZZ. Every single person you mentioned is old jazz.”

The salient explanation is that these soprano saxophonists are established as masters and thus necessarily “old”, as you put it. Obviously I was going for maximum contrast. Bear in mind, however, that “old” to you is likely relative to your age which may not be particularly advanced. Later you may find yourself more easily able to encompass a broader span.

Re: “You have to understand things about music. It`s an ever-changing industry where one day The Andrew Sisters are the days Pop Stars, then one day it`s Tiffany, then Britney Spears. Music changes. Jazz changes. Of course you`re going to knock down Kenny G, and I am sure Dave Koz, maybe even Grover Washington, Jr.”

I don’t have any Grover Washington, Jr. in my record collection, but I like his playing fine and have no objection to him. I’m afraid I am ignorant of Dave Koz; I don’t know who he is. In fact, however, jazz has been relatively stagnant, I’m afraid, for decades. In its first sixty years (speaking very approximately), it underwent radical changes regularly.

Re: “ These people play the jazz you dislike. So of course their technique is horrible to you”

No, this is absolutely not true. I am able to differentiate the two clearly. This should not be construed to suggest that G.’s taste is any better than his faulty technique, however.

Re: “because I am sure you went to school (assuming you have gone to college) for Jazz Sax or Jazz Flute. They don`t teach anything modern in those classes. It`s all brainwashed Jazz from over 50 years ago (I am talking about the style here). They make you believe that that is the ONLY jazz.”

As it happens, I have a master’s degree in music theory. The schools I attended did not offer jazz degrees (and my high school had no jazz band). Aside from a few semesters of college jazz ensemble, a single semester each of Improvisation and Piano Improvisation, and a summer of non-academic private jazz piano lessons, I learned all I know of jazz from listening and playing.

Re: “Kenny G does not claim to be a Jazz Saxophonist”

And Pat Metheny calls this a cop-out. It’s merely G.’s way of evading unflattering comparison.

Re: “BTW, I wonder what Mozart`s Concerto in D would sound like jazzed up a bit?”

No, that’s OLD music. Let’s avoid OLD music.

WOW, this looks EXTREMLY hard. Is it something a 14-year old girl could do? Just curious..or is it for professionals..?

<Added>

If i could do this circular breathing, it'll be really helpful in this piece i'm doing.

how did a thread about circular breathing turn into a sniping sesssion about jazz?

whoa..it takes a long time to develop this technique? i thought it depends on the person and could do it overnight. never mind.. I`ll just work on my air support.

You can practice circular breathing without an instrument.

Do not inhale, but open your mouth to take in a big gob of air, let your cheeks puff out.
Do not exchale, but slowly release the air using a small embouchure, your cheeks, and your toungue.

Practice that for a bit.

Now try taking a breath while pushing out air (remember, your not exhaling, but pushing out air with your tongue/cheeks).

After you get comfortable with that try switch from pushing out the air with your tongue to actually exhaling and before you run out of breath puff your cheeks up and prepare to push out air... breath in while pushing out air.

That`s circular breathing.

It`s far easier to do on an oboe than a flute, but you can do it. Oboists do it out of necessity for those pieces that give them obscenely long phrases without breath and they can get away with it undetected. A flutist circular breathing can only be done on notes where they can switch to an extremely tight embouchure without negatively affecting tone color or it will be VERY obvious.

Circular breathing may cause lightheadedness if not done correctly. To master it takes practice. But the main reason why people use circular breathing is to hold a note out for a long time without having to suddenly take a breath.
Usually brass instruments (and occasionally saxophones) use circular breathing. It is not necessary to use circular breathing on a reed instrument because your embouchure must be tight, and no puffed cheeks.

There are different ways to learn how to circular breathe. I learned by puffing my cheeks out and blowing into a cup full of water using a straw. And the goal would be to constantly blow bubbles in the water using the circular breathing technique.
My dad also learned using that method.

My viewpoint is different

But isn't it alway? Lol!!!!! Sorry I couldn't resist.