I have always been wondering why an intermediate student has to use intermediate flute. I mean if an intermediate student can afford professional flute and he/she has decided not to quit flute playing for life, why is it not advisable to upgrade to professional flute ‘prematurely’?

they could ruin the flute... i know that if i bought my flute earlier than i did (i dont deserve my flute. im a sophomore in hs and even though i play like a college graduate, i think that my flue is still too nice fo me) it wouldve been trashed. dont know about you, but normal people dont just throw around 7 grand for nothing...







p.s. i wasnt implying that im like.... the best on the earth so dont get that impression. i hope you got my point though

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oh, forgot to add that professional flutes arent made for durablity like student flutes. imagine banging up a gemeinhardt 2sp against a stand compared to a powell. i thik the gemeinhardt would take the beating a bit more aggressively more so than the powell

(i replied this morning when i was still half-asleep so give me the benefit of the doubt here)

Tessa, it has more to do with the power of the young player, I got my first pro flute when I was 14, but it was rather lighweight, I changed to a more resistant Haynes when I got older, most young people can't handle the resistance of a more advanced flute

Thank you Patrick. At least now I know the answer. It's because my teacher keeps on harping about good players sounding like a pro on intermediate flute without really telling me directly why I can't upgrade. He also advised me to upgrade flutehead instead. I am having trouble with my current Yamaha flute (seems like there's more problem than what I anticipated) and the technician here told me that it is not practical to repair my old Armstrong. And I am thinking of buying a new flute then have my Yamaha as a stand-by.

Tessa, It's true that a professional flute does not make us professionals and also that good professionals can play very well on intermediate or even student flutes (if the instrument is in good condition).

But I believe there is no strong reason to stay at an intermediate flute if you feel you can upgrade soon (and you have the money to invest on it).

I have very recently upgraded form my old-old Gemeinhardt M2 to a new Yamaha YFL764H. That was a big jump!.

The 674 is rated (by Yamaha) as a professional model (though at the low end). Its price was relatively affordable ). I paid about 2,300$ for it, at Fluteworld.

How I feel? Well, how to explain... like a novice pilot riding a Formula I race car.

It is such an exciting experience, it renews your faith on the possibility of reaching a reasonable playing level (for me, as I'm much limited in time, but for someone younger, I'm sure it would make him/her feel there are no limits!)

It has its problematic side, also.

Right now, the EC cut is for me as difficult to dominate as the Formula I car. But there are magic moments, that become more and more frequent as long as I practise and learn, that compensate for the other troubles.

Today I had one of them. Just working a simple Adagio from the Haendel Hallenser I with my teacher, my instrument began to sound so beautifully, so in tune and in full agreement with her 7K$+ Muramatsu that I felt the tension between the voices, so deep and strong that, well, I had to stop because I was too deep in emotion.

It is not a nice thing having to stop in the middle of a nice performance and I was not going to report this inteh Forum. But we have talked about this before and now I think it is a good example of what happens when the instrument is more powerful and capable of what we can take profit most of the time. But those times not included in the "most" ... wow, they are unforgettable.

I changed to a more resistant Haynes when I got older, most young people can't handle the resistance of a more advanced flute

Patrick,

Would you say to a certain extent you mean it is kind of like starting off a reed player on a 5 instead of a 1 or 2 reed? I am kind of thinking I like the idea of starting them on something more resistant. Do you think this would help them control their tone better or do you think it would hinder their learning?

Back to main topic:

I see no problem with a mature young adult having whatever type of flute the parent or child can afford as long as it is something the young adult intends on using for a long time. Generally the mechanism or more advanced flutes is a lot better than beginner style models.

I am not sure why your teacher would suggest not getting a new flute, and I would ask him/her specifically why she thinks you should not purchase a new flute. A better upgrade on a flute will take awhile for you to get used to, so it is not like it is going to fix problems you have overnight. Hmmm.

One more reason not to purchase a professional flute is that if you are not at an advanced level, your playing style may change as you grow musically, and with it your needs in an instrument. That would mean you spent $7000+ dollars on an instrument that may not suit your needs in the end. In answer to your question, dottedeighthnote, it is roughly the same idea. It is more difficult to play well on a very resistant flute, but once you can, it can sound marvelous. I think that in the long term, it would help your students control their air, but you would probably have difficulty finding students willing to overcome the problems a highly resistant flute would have for a beginner. They would have a much more difficult time even producing a tone, as the air must be much more focused. So, the benefits in the long term don't really matter much if most of your students give up after only a short interlude on the flute. Just like starting a reed player on a five rather than a 2, since the muscles in the mouth and abdomen are not developed for playing, you could also cause strains simply through their attempts to play for any meaningful length of time, though I would expect this problem to be much less prevalent in flutists than in reed players.

Would you say to a certain extent you mean it is kind of like starting off a reed player on a 5 instead of a 1 or 2 reed? I am kind of thinking I like the idea of starting them on something more resistant. Do you think this would help them control their tone better or do you think it would hinder their learning?<<

Not the same situation...You are not considering the cut of the mouthpiece. You can't compare flute and other reed instruments in this way. Flute embouchure doesn't work the same way. To do that to a reed player is like asking a beginning weightlifter to start with a 500lb barbell..

As far as upgrades are concerned... A good instrument requires care and handling that a beginner student may or may not be able to handle or appreciate. You can certainly grow into it, and if you've got the money and can care for it properly, there is no reason why you couldn't buy one.

The other half of that is that you may not be able to appreciate the performance. The instrument may be more capable than you are. Certain sports cars can take corners at very high rates of speed. But a beginner driver doesn't have a suitable ability to take advantage of that capability.

It's the same with a flute. If you can afford it and can take care of it, there is no reason why you can't or shouldn't practice on one. But you may not be able to take advantage of all the possibilites a fine piece of equipment like that can deliver though. That still take time. Some people feel that the money is therefore wasted when something else will suite that purpose just as well. They postpone a better instrument until they are ready for it.

Either way, a good instrument is not going to hurt you at all...

Joe B

Be glad you have an intrument that's at your level. I still use my begginner flute and judging by the way it looks now compared to when i got it, I wouldn't trust myself with a flute that fancy.

right you are Joe, I have a student now who has only been learning in a band program and was given a pro Muramatsu by a rich aunt, she is struggling the weight of the flute, the silver tube and the b-foot, it happens to be a very good flute by the way, she is just not ready for it

My teacher does not totally disagree with the idea of me upgrading, I think it is a form of miscommunication b/w us because I remember that he asked me a few times before what my plans are in terms of musical career and I replied ‘not so much right now’. Then he also told me that if I am going to spend that kind of budget, I better invest more time to realize what I really want in an instrument (with emphasis on recoverable value) then spend time travelling to countries such as US or Japan to try brands that I really like (‘though he favors Japanese brands).

I am looking for instrument that can give me more control on tone and articulation. I feel like my demands in an instrument have changed and that my current instrument is limiting my progress and self-expression.

And finally, my teacher told me good reviews about Nagahara and how my current demands can be temporarily satisfied by a flutehead change. He’s willing to lend me one of his heads for eight weeks, he’ll bring it on Saturday to see how it fits.

Well it sounds like he is trying to help you. From what you've told us, he is probably going off the information that you gave him about not really being interested in a music career, and this may be why he doesn't suggest you get a professional flute, because you won't need it. He's probably just trying to save you money. Have you told him that you are starting to feel limited by what you're playing now? I'd like to point out that only you can control tone and articulation (a new flute probably will not help solve control issues). Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you though, and you want something with either a darker/brighter tone, or more tone colours to play with, and which will respond more quickly, which can allow faster articulation. Just don't count on a flute to solve problems you have with controlling your tone or articulation. Certainly try his headjoint, but it may or may not be a good fit for you. If not, don't immediately throw out the idea of simply purchasing a new head, as he is right, and changing heads can have a drastic effect on most flutes. And Nagahara has a great reputation, but remember that it is not necessarily the flute for you just because your teacher has told you about it. Try many different makes and models to find what you're looking for. Good luck!

Tessa,
I would definitely give the headjoint a try. I had a Yamaha CY headjoint (it should be the same cut that yours is) that was not symmetrical, and it gave me a lot of difficulties until I put it aside and bought a new headjoint. My CY headjoint had an embouchure hole that was more oval in one corner, and more rectangular in the others. Take a piece of plain paper and cover the embouchure hole with it, and press your thumb on it to make an impression. You will be able to assess its shape better this way. You won't be able to see whether the undercutting is symmetrical, though. There was also a thread recently regarding 'cheese grater' headjoints, your headjoint may have a problem that is easily and inexpensively remedied by an expert.
Do give a different headjoint a try. It may take three or four weeks to realize a big difference, but it will usually be worth it.
I bought myself a gorgeous grenadilla wood Powell Philharmonic cut headjoint about a year ago. I love it, although when I bought it I couldn't do nearly as much with it as I can now. It has been hard work, but I know it there is more there as I become a more accomplished player.
By the way, I agree with your teacher. A Yamaha 400 series flute should suit your needs quite well, and maybe even better with a headjoint that suits you.

Tibbie

It is nice to hear your teacher is actually giving you reasons for not suggesting a full flute upgrade. I would try the headjoint also and see what you think. Your teacher sounds like a pretty solid person to me (from what you have said), so I think in this case following his advice is probably a good way to go.

the headjoint is what makes a flute