ok so i was having a discussion with our guitarist about what a recorder is...is it a very siumple flute or is it somthing on its own...i'm going to put this on the recorder forum too and see if there is any difference of opinion between the two.

Well technically a flute is an instrument that produces its sound from the flow of air against an edge. I am no recorder expert, but I believe that it does fit this description, which would qualify it as a type of flute.

In France we are all calling the recorder "flute a bec" wich I think could be translated as "flute with a mouth piece".

We are call the flute "flute traversiere" wich means "transverse flute".

It's similar in Dutch. A flute is called a "dwarsfluit", or "sideways-flute", and a recorder is called a "Blokfluit", or "block-flute" (referring to the wood I think, but I could be wrong about the origin of the word).

It could be argued that the word "flute" (as it is used in this forum) is simply an abbreviation of "transverse flute".

Basically, it depends on how you define "flute", but I don't think it would be unreasonable to put the recorder into this class.

I should add that although I personally prefer the (Boehm) flute, the recorder is a perfectly nice instrument which has gotten a bad rap. If anyone disagrees, I would urge them to listen to some of Vivaldi's recorder concertos.

Thanks for the word: fipple flute. But, yes, in the flute category.

Here's a nice article on recorder repertoire that gives you an idea of how recorders were used and the confusion over what was played by them, as opposed to the transverse flute, during certain periods of history:

http://www.recorderhomepage.net/torture4.html

If you're interested in the recorder, the entire website is informative, with lots of information on recorder history and early music in general.

--Judy

That web site is fairly detailed but it is difficult to find some of the specifics.
In the Baroque before ~1720s The Recorder was ofen referred to simply as the Flute or the beaked flute. Flute a Bec. -The shape of the recorder from side view. Also referred to as the Block flute in germany -referring to the fipple or the wood block inserted in the blowing end of these wood instruments.
The "modern flute" was more often referred to as the transverse flute. Traversiere or Cross flute -(Qwerflöte) in various languages referring to the fact that it's played horizontally.

Probably for us flutists, the most famous works for the Recorder include two of the J.S. Bach Brandenburg concertos (#2 and #4). There was one Brandenburg (#5) written in D maj. that used the Traverso and it was actually more of a harpsichord concerto. The Handel Flute Sonatas were for the most part written for Recorder. You can kind of spot Recorder Vs. Transverse Flute literature from the period by the range or the key signatures. The more commonly used Alto Recorder went down to a low F and the Traverso went down to a low D. The Recorder music was more often written in C maj. or the more flat keys and the Traverso more often avoided the Flat keys. Fingerings and tuning were atrocious. Excceptions are common. The Bach Sonata in Eb for Traverso (the most difficult technically for Traverso) and the Bach Musical Offereing Trio-Sonata was written for Traverso. This piece is a tuning nightmare for Traverso because of all the chromaticism. These are both later Bach works generally being after 1720.

There is still a fair following for recorder and music is being written. In recent times the most famous use of the Recorder that I can site would probably be in the song Stairway to Heaven by Led Zeppelin Recorded around 1971.

thankyou people the argument is now settled (and settled in my favor)...i will tell the guitarist that they are wrong (one up to me...cheers people. JamJar Jacob x

<Added>

sorry there should have been an extra ), damn that parenthesis!!!

flute = a flute. you blow air across the hole, not in2 it. also, unless the flute is open holed, the keys on a flute are covered. flutes are metal, not plastic. ooo and flutes are held up, not down.

I dont know if this helps. lol, flutes arent recorders

oops, too late, sorry!

>>flute = a flute. you blow air across the hole, not in2 it. also, unless the flute is open holed, the keys on a flute are covered. flutes are metal, not plastic. ooo and flutes are held up, not down.<<

Actually, a flute is any woodwind instrument whose sound is made by blowing against a solid edge. In the concert flute, you blow across the mouthpiece to get this effect; the pan flute is also in this category. Other flute-family members, like the recorder and the tin whistle, have a fipple at a precise angle that allows you to blow and create the sound by blowing into a mouthpiece. They are all members of the flute family, however. BTW, look up "flute" in the Merriam-Webster dictionary--the first definition given is "recorder."

Also, by your definition, is the Emerson EP-3 piccolo (made of "plastic") a "flute"? What about a Powell grenadilla wood flute (wood, not metal)? Is that a "flute"? Ooo, see how complicated this gets?

i dont care nemore. i play the flute...not a recorder. i dont run around saying im playing the recorder when its not. if a recorders a flute, why call it a recorder?? of course a recorder is a woodwind instrument and so is a piccolo. they are all in the same family...but they are not the same instruments..thats why they all have different names.

The piccolo and recorder are different instruments, but keep in mind that "flute" is just the simplified name for the instrument. Technically it is a "C soprano flute" or a "concert flute" not just a flute. It is a member of the flute family, as are piccolo and recorder, because by definition a flute is just an instrument that produces sound by splitting an airstream with an edge. That principle holds true for many different instruments besides the soprano flute. By your definition, a bass flute is no longer a flute, because it is not a soprano flute, but that quite clearly is not the case. Yes, it has a different name, but that is just to differentiate all the various types of flutes in existence, not because it is part of an entirely different family.

A recorder is most definately a member of the flute family. The criteria is in its operation. It is a tube with the two open ends, one at the front where you blow and the other where the tone holes are. The fipple window on a recorder is the open end at the front as the embouchure hole is on the flute. On the recorder, the windway is rigidly controlled to direct the airstream, whereas on the flute, the embouchure is required to do that function. The same acoustical properties are used for all flutes. Recorder, shakuhachi, recorder, pennywhistle, Native American (block style) Flute, etc. are all types of flutes. Non fippled flutes are often called transverse flutes.

The only other type of flute which is a bit of a hybrid is the hemholtz resonator globular flutes such as an ocarina.

Joe B