It sounds to me like you have found the right music store.

If you are shopping for a new (or used) flute, you can always find a great deal online. Also, the internet flute re-sale specialists mentioned are DEFINITELY worth a phone call. (Liz at winds101, and Nancy at Flutestar- they have both achieved an excellent reputation for what they do. They have good quality flutes rebuilt, and usually these flutes are better than a flute that you might find new in a showroom.)

Anyway, very often it is worth paying the extra 15 or 20 percent on price, to get the service of a good local flute technician. If something goes wrong with your flute, you can take it back and get it fixed, without paying shipping costs and in many cases the fix doesn't cost anything, either.

So, if this guy was really helpful, go back!

I am guessing that you are looking at a Jupiter model 711, which is a silver-tube flute with silver-plate keywork. (Comparable to the Gem. 3SB.) I would suggest that you look at the Jupiter 611, which has a silver headjoint and a silver plated body and keywork. This would compare to the Gem. 3SHB. Play both models (611 and 711) without knowing which is which, and try to hear any difference. If you do hear a difference, it is probably due to the pad-work (finishing) skills of the person who made the flute; pick the one that sounds, responds, etc the best. It may be either model-but the difference is NOT the solid silver!

You are very unlikely to see/hear a difference between the two models (611 and 711), if the finishing work is the same. What you are paying for is a very small percentage materials- sterling being more expensive than silverplate- but mostly the 'brag factor' of having an all-silver flute.

With items like teaspoons, or sugar bowls, sterling IS worth more than silverplate. Flute manufacturers know that people value 'sterling' more than 'plated', and can get away with a HUGE markup on the actual silver content of the flute without spending any more money on the engineering and sound that the flute makes. Please read Leoporello's recent thread regarding "The Price of Silver". People will spend a CRAZY amount of money on gold-plating the mouthpiece, too...

And yes, apart from the spelling, your embouchure is already used to the Gemeinhardt scale. (I always wanted to spell it 'ombisher!) When you try out the flutes, bring your old flute with you and ask the nice helpful guy if you can use a tuner- he should have 23 or so around, priced for $20 to $100. Have him show you how to use it, and play, for instance, a Bb concert scale, slowly, on each flute so you can SEE what compensations you are already making, and how each flute may have a couple of odd notes. Take the time to do this, it will be worth the time. And do take home a $20 tuner!

I totally agree with the tuner idea. It is good to test the instrument you are going to buy with a tuner. However, I don't agree that your embouchure is accustomed to the Gemeinhardt scale. Every flute plays differently. You will have to make compensations accordingly.

I have had good experiences with the Woodwind/Brasswind. I buy reeds for my school program from them often, they are a lot less than what the local music stores charge. One of the reasons I suggested the WWBW is that they do have a payment plan. The person posting this mentioned that she probably needed to pay for the instrument in installments. Are there other flute dealers out there that have an installment plan?

Are there other flute dealers out there that have an installment plan?

Yes they are, buy they don't advertise it, but the difference is that you will be guaranteed a flute that is set up and actually plays when you get it.

Kara,

Can you mention a few? I think a lot of us would find it helpful. I usually refer my students to the WWBW because they do have a payment plan and their prices are about 30-50% less than the local music stores charge. I am also thinking about upgrading my flute and would prefer not to max out my credit cards to buy a new one ! LOL

Tibbiecow is correct about the embouchure thing. Ideally, you'd have an embouchure that could adjust to any scale, but when you play something with as funky a scale as some Gemeinhardts have for a long time, you subconciously learn how to play it in tune, no matter what it takes. Even coming from a really nice Yamaha (built on their somewhat outdated scale) to my Tom Green (built on the Bennett scale), I had to learn not to do some of the contortions that were necessary before. I subconsciously connected slight adjustments to some notes that weren't necessary on my Tom Green, and these compensations were affecting my playing negatively. Every flute plays differently, but when they are built on the same scale, with the same dimensions, the intonation differences are minimal from instrument to instrument.

Flutist06,

I guess you are right about the embouchure adjustments. My second flute was a Gemeinhardt KG special that I was so proud of; It had a gold lip plate and I thought that was way cool. After playing some other flutes and eventually upgrading to a Yamaha, I realized that looks were not everything! My Yamaha plays much better than my Gemeinhardt did. It is so much easier to play in tune. Has Gemeinhardt made any improvements to their scale?

Gemeinhardt has played around with their scale a little in the past, and last time I played a Gemmie, it was better than I remembered it being. I don't know if they actually made any changes, or if my perception of it being built on a better scale was just a result of a more flexible embouchure. Micron and the other techs can likely tell us if any real changes were made recently. Obviously, it still isn't as well developed as the Cooper or Bennett scales, but for those you usually end up paying a pretty penny.

Mscl, I would mention them, but I am not sure if they would like it advertised or not. I know that I personally was offered to do the payment plan route through a store that just specializes in flutes and another private dealer. Maybe because I am good friends with the owner? You can contact me privately though, and I can tell you who to talk to.

I spent a good long time down at my "regular" music store last night just.. Playing.

I tried an open holed flute 9 years ago, for about 10 minutes. It was my best friend's new flute, and she never let me touch it again.. Because I was able to mostly play it without the plugs. To this day, she still can't play with all the plugs out.

At any rate.. I finally had to just give the flute back to the person on duty at the store, otherwise I would have stayed there for the rest of the night just.. Playing. It was, okay this will sound really dorky.. But it was amazing. He took all the plugs out for me, told me to grab a few books, and set me up in a room and just let me play. (I think he's excited for me, since all five of the main people at this store remember me as a hyper little 10 year old walking in for the first time.)

I have to go back tomorrow, to take them my 2SP.. Found the air leak tonight I suspected was there on Saturday.. Oy.

But, I don't want a plated flute again. I know the 3SB has plated *keys,* but the body is solid silver.

I'm still waiting on another local store to call me back about the shipment they're waiting on so I can try a Jupiter there. I have a friend that's a Viola player in the symphony here and he suggested an all woodwind store for me to try.. And he said he's going to talk to some people for me at rehersal tomorrow. (He was out of town until... Last night, I think.)

I feel incredibly dorky right now because I'm giddy with excitement. :P

The guy down at my regular store just sort of stared at me when I finally handed him the flute I was playing around on back.. And gave me a bemused expression when I was frustrated that I couldn't get an E flat to play consistantly.. Since he wasn't expecting me to play much of anything with all the plugs out.. :D He also gave me a "well, duh" look when I told him okay I should have had him and my private lesson teacher pressure my parents 10 years ago to get me a "step up" flute when I needed one.. Rather than buying a cheap BS flute for my mom who decided she wanted to take lessons too. ::headdesk:: She lasted a couple years, and hasn't touched in in *ages.*

And she thinks I'm going to let her play my new one. Well, okay, I probably have to since she's helping with the down payment.

Alright, this has been an overly long post, but that's really due to the fact I'm excited.. And after playing for awhile at the store last night, this is feeling more "real" to me. I have waited so dang long to "up" my instrument.

I'm glad you had such a good experience, but I'd like to say one thing about what you wrote. You said you didn't want another plated flute. I have to ask why. The material is not nearly as important as the workmanship (in fact, to many people the material doesn't affect the sound at all). Personally I would much rather play a Muramatsu EX (plated body, silver head), than an all silver Gemmie or Armstrong. Part of your excitement is likely due to all the new things you found you could do, but that doesn't necessarily make the Gemeinhardt you were playing the best choice for you....It just means it's a better choice than what you have been playing for the last ten years. Don't jump into this, or decide prematurely that the Gemmie is for you. Playtesting other instruments may turn up something you like even better. I made the mistake of jumping on a flute I thought was amazing a few years ago, and a year later I realized it just wasn't doing it for me. I was fortunate to be able to get a new flute at that point, but not everyone has that option, so be sure what you buy is something you can be happy with in the long run.

I made the mistake of jumping on a flute I thought was amazing a few years ago, and a year later I realized it just wasn't doing it for me.

I had the same experience, but it only took me less then 6 months until I realized that it just wasn't working for me.

I agree with Chris. I would also rather play a Muramatsu, Altus or Miyazawa silver plated flute rather then an Armstrong, Gemeinhardt etc.. any day! The workmanship is much better on the top notch name brands. With the more intermediate line modles, they suffer from headjoints that are not cut and designed as well. As I have mentioned before on this forum, the headjoint is the heart of the flute, so it is very important.

I know how excited you must be, but again, I agree with Chris, try and take your time. Best of luck to you and your new flute.

<Added>

Chris, if you don't mind me asking, what was the flute that didn't work for you?

I don't mind at all. It was a Yamaha 581 (now the 674). At first it seemed so amazing that a flute could let you do what it let you do, but as I became more accustomed to it, I began to notice it's limitations.....Primarily the headjoint (which was an EC), as you said. The scale is also difficult to work with, and the mech isn't as smooth as I'd like, but those were lesser factors than the head. With my style of playing, it provided a very nice, small sound, but no option for a bigger, fuller sound. The colors were highly limited, and the response only mediocre. It's a very nice instrument, and I still play it from time to time as a backup, but it simply was not a good match for me, and after a while it gets a little frustrating not to be able to do everything I want to, when I know I'm capable of it. I'd hate to see someone experience the same thing if it could be avoided.

I used to play on a 581 also. I always loved that flute, but had all the limitations as you did as well. Even with a better head on it, the scale was stick out of wack a bit. I did try a one of the newer Yammahas with the new and improved scale and it does seem better. But for some reason, I still like the older ones better, they just play sweeter for me. I always liked the mechanism on them. The flute that didn't work out for me was a Muramatus. Still a wonderful flute, but I still like my current main flute much better, it just fits me. (Well besides the weight of it...ugh!)

<Added>

Sorry, didn't mean to go off subject too much. Oh, and sorry for all the spelling errors. I guess I am notoriousfor that though.

HELLO 8NOTES, PLEASE GIVE US A SPELL CHECKER!!!

I haven't bought anything yet - nor will I for a few weeks.

I'm definately still looking around, and I do know better than to buy the first one I touch. Hence the reason I'm asking other people for advice.

That doesn't mean, though, I can't get excited about finally playing something other than my old 2SP. I'm definately not convinced I want the one I tried on Tuesday night. Mostly just thrilled that I really *can* get a better sound than my 2SP is capable of.

It's really discouraging when you're excited about an instrument and have worked hard at it for a number of years, to be rejected for things like Honor Band because your tone quality isn't matching what they think it should based on your techincal skill.. And to talk to your parents at the age of 15 about something like that.. Only to have them say no, we're not buying you a new flute, look your mom wants to play let's go buy another *student* flute.

So, I'm really sort of caught up in the thrill of being able to finally "step up" after so long. I actually did contact two people about the possibility of taking lessons again, and am waiting to hear how much they want to charge me.

I just needed to geek out a little last night.

I also have a Yamaha 581 as a back up instrument. I haven't seen another one like mine, it is rose gold plated. I agree with Kara and Flutist06. I bought it because at the time I thought it played amazingly well. I still like the mechanism but agree that it is not as flexible as I would like. However it is a great flute and would be a much better choice than the Gemeinhardt. I haven't played the Jupiter flutes nor their step up Di Medici series. Are they any good? My school owns some of the Jupiter low brass and I am not at all impressed with them.