Jim, I won't even attempt to refute your last couple ridiculous posts, as Micron has said everything that needs to be said. Micron and I don't always see eye-to-eye, but in this case, I couldn't agree more with what he's written.

Of course you all agree. That's because you can't read.

That's not my difficiency --- it's yours.

TRY TO READ MY POST(S) --- that's the first part of the equation.

Then, TRY (and I realize how challenging it can be for you to do this) to read what I've written.

It always includes "IMO". IF it doesn't, then common English prevails (and there are many who don't understand Common English) --- it is postured ONLY as an opinion.

Get the picture?

This HAS TO BE the UNFRIENDLIEST of flute forums I've ever been to. You don't (or can't) read. You don't (or can't) get what I'm saying.

And -- you ALL have a controversial intent to your replies. This is, in short, nothing but hate mail. And just think -- I was actually accused of authoring such B.S.

I don't respond to hate mail, and I'm tired of "defending" myself, just because I authored something "that you don't agree with".

What a STUPID forum --- with a bunch of neanderthals. Why don't you start your own forum: "Flute players for Dummies" --- and get it over with, so those of us who DO play can have an intelligent, responsible --- and friendly forum.

Jim

Of course you all agree. That's because you can't read.

An interesting supposition. Would you care to somehow back the claim that we can't read? It's curious that we've managed to respond to your posts point by point in entirely coherent writing if we're incapable of understanding the English language.

That's not my difficiency --- it's yours.

Well, I suppose it would be our deficiency if it were true, but as with most of the claims you've made here, you have provided any real evidence that it is.

TRY TO READ MY POST(S) --- that's the first part of the equation. Then, TRY (and I realize how challenging it can be for you to do this) to read what I've written.

So how are those two halves of the "equation" different? Reading your posts and reading what you've written are synonymous on an internet-based board like this one.

It always includes "IMO". IF it doesn't, then common English prevails (and there are many who don't understand Common English) --- it is postured ONLY as an opinion.

"IMO" does not qualify every bit of information you might deign to "grace" us with as your opinion. Clearly you are the one who has difficulty grasping the complexities of the English language if you cannot tell the difference between presenting something as fact, and presenting something as an opinion.

Get the picture?

I and most of the other members have had the picture for a good long while now. You're the only one who seems to be missing a copy.

This HAS TO BE the UNFRIENDLIEST of flute forums I've ever been to. You don't (or can't) read. You don't (or can't) get what I'm saying.

If it's so unfriendly, feel free to leave.

And -- you ALL have a controversial intent to your replies. This is, in short, nothing but hate mail. And just think -- I was actually accused of authoring such B.S.

Jim, you've tried this tactic before, and no one's biting. No one believes you're the poor innocent member who's being attacked. We can all see through you. The least you could do would be to come up with some new material.

I don't respond to hate mail, and I'm tired of "defending" myself, just because I authored something "that you don't agree with".

No, you authored something deceptive....many times over.

What a STUPID forum --- with a bunch of neanderthals. Why don't you start your own forum: "Flute players for Dummies" --- and get it over with, so those of us who DO play can have an intelligent, responsible --- and friendly forum. Jim

Ahh...back to the old "flute forum for dummies" suggestion, again? You really need to find some new points to make. I think we'd all like to have an intelligent, responsible, friendly forum again, but unfortunately, that won't happen until you're gone. So I guess it's up to you to make your own dream come true.

Well,flutist06, once again, you've put me into my place.

My message was written on a moment of anger, for which I apologize to you and other members.

If you read my last 3 or 4 posts, they had only to do with flute playing, where I was actualy asking for advice.

I respect, as I have always done, your vast knowledge of flute construction and playing.

In a moment of charity, please forgive me.

My future posts will only be questions --- not dictums (which I'm often guilty of providing).

I stand at fault. And ask you and the forum to overlook my last posts. Please look at my previous posts, which have only to do with flute playing, and questions.

Could we please get back to talking about flutes, only. So much appreciated.

Respectfully: Jim

Well,flutist06, once again, you've put me into my place.

Frankly, I doubt that I have. Many times before you've attacked us endlessly, only to apologize. What is supposed to make me believe that this is any different? At the moment I think you're just afraid that you might get kicked off the board, thus ending your time here, and you're willing to "apologize" if it means the "fun" keeps going.

My message was written on a moment of anger, for which I apologize to you and other members.

All of the posts for which you apologize are supposedly written in a moment of anger, or when you're sleep deprived. These may be reasons for your behavior, but they're not excuses. You need to get a grip on your emotions.

If you read my last 3 or 4 posts, they had only to do with flute playing, where I was actualy asking for advice.

This little bit seems to come up in most of your apologies, nearly word-for-word, which does not make it altogether meaningful. If I look back at your last few posts, most of them were talking knocks at me, Micron, or AZFlutist (who's no longer a member of this board).

I respect, as I have always done, your vast knowledge of flute construction and playing.

I don't care if you respect me or not, but respect the members of this board by eliminating the condescension.
As I've noted in most of my posts to you in the last few days, you show the members of this board, or flutists at large disrespect almost every time you post.

In a moment of charity, please forgive me.

I've forgiven you in the past, and nothing has come of my forgiveness. I have no reason to believe that now will be any different. If you want to be a legitimate member of this board, I suggest that as a token of your sincerity, you close your current account, take some time off, and come back, keeping in mind the lessons about appropriate forum behavior that you've learned this time around.

My future posts will only be questions --- not dictums (which I'm often guilty of providing).

I doubt that this is true, but I have been proven wrong before.

I stand at fault. And ask you and the forum to overlook my last posts. Please look at my previous posts, which have only to do with flute playing, and questions.

It would be great if we could pick and choose which of our posts others read, but the fact of the matter is that all of them color others' perceptions of our character. This is true for every member of the board regardless of who they are, and it's true for you.

Could we please get back to talking about flutes, only. So much appreciated. Respectfully: Jim

We'll certainly find out if we can get back to the matter at hand....In my mind, that depends entirely on you, Jim.

I get the feeling that i'm going to be that last person posting on this thread. But if no one respondes I'll post this question on another thread.

Question 1) I saw someone mention that getting a closed-hole professional flute would be difficult to find. I was hoping to get a closed-hole when buy a professional flute Because I discovered how to do gliss and multiphonics without the open-holes and don't have any use for themany more. So how would I go about getting a good closed-hole pro flute-used(because i definently wont be able to afford a new one)?

Question 2) Do closed-holed flutes come with a B foot? I was just woundering because i've only ever seem them on open-holed flutes.

<Added>

typo THE last***

not 'that last'

Hey Penny! Plateau models absolutely can come with a B foot. Any combination of specs you can imagine is probably out there somewhere. As for where to look for a closed hole pro flute, I'd keep an eye on all the usual places (Fluteworld, Flute Center of New York, Carolyn Nussbaum, etc.). The pro level plateau models are less common, but not impossible to find. With a little patience, you can probably find one you like pretty well.

You can always find fantastic old plateau model Haynes for almost less than a song. I've seen them for under $2000. Keep on eye on this guy:

http://stores.ebay.com/quinntheeskimo-Vintage-Horns_W0QQssPageNameZstrkQ3amefsQ3amesstQQtZkm

He often has pro level closed hole flutes. He's a solid seller and flutist too I believe (or at least he's on FLUTE list).

I think, Micron, where I'm running afoul is in responding to other people's posts.

My own lastest posts: "Wooden flutes", and a post where I directed members to a site featuring (their favorite) flutist(s), and a site about "Metal flutes", and others, were not stated as dictums. Not even "opinions".

I just thought I was bringing up interesting subjects. My posts were well received and I had a lot of compliments.

You once said: "flute players don't know anything about flute construction --- they only know how to play". I guess, in my case, that's particularly true.

I'm in really dark waters when I try to put my two cents in, regarding anything outside of playing; I need to stick to subjects that I think might be of interest to others.

I'll confine it that, from now on.

In closing, I'll be the first to admit that I was probably "duped" when I, as a teen-ager, was talked into buying a French model flute.

And, by the way, I did do my homework. Whether I was given "false" information or not is peripheral to the point. I was just simply going by what I was told by manufacturers and artists. If anyone was providing "false information" --- then it was they, because you were actually hearing "their" voice(s) --- not mine.

We'll keep away from that from now on.

I do admire your scholarship --- as well as Joe's and the others. And I read your (individual and collective) replies, as they are rapidly becoming the only source(s) that I can "trust".

I will continue to post threads --- I'll try to make sure they're not redundant --- and will only have to do with flute playing; further, they will be presented as "questions" re: ().

Feel free, if I post, to jump in and give your opinion. It's always welcome.

I still have a lot to learn. I guess I'll just "get with the program" and get a Plateau flute ---- since, based upon feedback, there seems to be no difference between open and closed hole flutes.

And yes, I have been playing for 40 years. Bragging? I don't think so. Who would want to admit to being in their 60s? What purpose would it serve to lie about that? In fact, I could have easily postured the opposite.

No, I won't e-mail anyone who doesn't want me to. (I don't recall having done it in a long time, anyway).

Let's just keep this a flute forum, and look for our peace-pipe. Fair enough? I never came to this forum looking "for trouble" or to cause "havoc" --- what purpose would that serve?


Regards, Jim

Very inspiring, Micron --- and I thank you.

So glad you're joining the "60" club --- I won't feel so alone, anymore.

Glad you've done so much with your life --- and it shows.

And, by the way --- having played for forty years means nothing. I know friends who have been playing for 5 years, and are better than I.

Best Regards, Jim

Thanks, ninafire, for the "heads-up" and links.

I appreciate them, as I'm sure everyone else will.

Regards, Jim