Please comment on this topic. thanks...

I've always wondered about this one! I've thought that if you have bigger lips, you have to do less with them to make a difference, for example, to jump intervals, change tone colour etc etc and with small lips, you would have to make much more movement...I have no idea if this is anywhere near correct or not, its just a thought!!

x

i have rather large lips and they have "gotten in the way" many times i actually have to put the lip plate on my lips rather then under them it is not really a problem but i have been told my lips are to big to play the flute but i have delt fine and have been playing for a couple of years and can't wait to keep playing

i am sure sancan_rocks that bigger lips would help to some extent but they can't be too big cause then it just makes it worse to play

yeah, i think if the lips are too big they might be a bit of an obstruction

i dont want to seem racist in any way, so dont take this next comment in that direction.

i knew an african american flutist. she won a full-ride to interlochen summer camp one year (i think its the emerson scholarship). obviously she had to be a very accomplished musician to win that. anyway, she had some absolutely HUGE lips. as you know with many african americans, its typical to have rather large lips, larger than most caucasians. then again, that same year, a girl from japan also won a full scholarship and her lips were extremely thin. that is also very typical of an asian. they both played beautifully even though their styles were different. i think that in my experience, since i kinda have both types of lips (an extremely full bottom lip paired with an extremely thin upper lip), it depends on how you adapt to playing the instrument.

well speaking of lips...I have a abcess on the right side of my bottom lip (from a lip injury a long time ago) which fluctuates in its size a lot...

but yeah as a result of this, my tone and dynamic control vary all the time, depending on the size of my lip.....but yeah I may have to quit because it just seems to be getting more in the way of my embrochure etc etc.

But yeah I agree, it shouldnt matter if you have big or small lips, but I guess my case is one of a kind!which sucks of course!

I'd say that if you enjoy the flute, the lips don't matter. Most people aren't going to do anything cosmetically to alter their lip size. Same goes for the teeth, particularly in the front. They can affect the embouchure as much as any issues with the lips. When I was young, braces weren't as common with guys as they are today in the U.S. Consequently, I can have some issues with the teeth and my playing. I try to work through them and make the best out of what I have.

I would agree with most of the respondents that the size of your lips doesn't matter.

The late Jean-Pierre Rampal, for example, had a "split" upper lip, wherein he played the flute in almost a vertical position. The same with the former Principal flutist of the BSO. If you've ever seen either of them perform --- they play their instrument in an almost vertical position (redundant).

Mrs Dwyer had thin lips --- Rampal had rather full lips.

One of the most promising flutists of our time that I've (heard and seen play) is an African-American, who plays with great dexterity and a wonderful, sonoric tone, and who has very "thick" lips.

In conclusion, it appears to make no difference. You must adjust your embechure to accommodate your tonal response and playing.

Best of luck.

Jim Millen

The late Jean-Pierre Rampal, for example, had a "split" upper lip, wherein he played the flute in almost a vertical position.

JPR did not play with his flute in an almost vertical position. There are some excellent videos on Youtube of him performing which show him in a very natural position with the flute angled down toward the floor slightly, but certainly not to the point that it would be considered vertical. It is well documented that his embouchure was off to the left, and thus he played with the flute in a slightly different position than some, and perhaps this is what you are referring to. It may also be that as he aged his flute began to sag slightly, but for the majority of his career he did not play with the flute "nearly vertical."

I have a tear-drop lip and play slightly to the side, my lips are not very even, but I get a good tone, so Bilbo said it best, if you want a good tone and can produce one the lips won't matter..

So my lips aren't really thick, but they are definitly not thin. I have found that the only time they obstruct what I'm trying to do at all is when I'm trying to play really high notes on picc. I think it's because I make my appeture smaller the higher the note and it gets to the point where they're just touching, like I can't make them not touch.

I figured out a couple years ago that while I play, not only do I have to tighten the muscles around my lips, but I have to contract my lip muscles as well to make my lips a little smaller and that helps a little bit.

One thing I still do bad is use my lips too much, to obtain different octaves, colours and dynamics.

Or so have I been told by a professional flute soloist.

He says that lips give "the final touch" or colour to the sound, but the main thing is accomplished by correct air pressure management through abdominal muscles.

According to this and with a correct technique, lips size should have a little role "to play" in the performance



<Added>

I still do bad --> I still do wrong (sounds better English, does it)

I did NOT mean "vertical", LITERALLY. I merely meant in a "more vertical" position than (slightly) horizontal, which is the position most flutists play.

If you look at early photos of Doriot Dwyer and James Pappoutsakis, including (taped) video telecasts --- it appears as though the flute is MORE in a vertical position than horizontal. This is in order to accomplish their embrechures.

If, on the other hand, you look at photos and telecasts of Paula Robison, and the late Elaine Schaeffer, you will see the opposite.

One of the disadvantages of having studied with different flutists, is that "they" all take a different attitude regarding just HOW your flute should be "positioned". I've been "yelled at" several times for "not holding the flute correctly. In my particular case, I found the "NEARLY VERTICAL" position to best accommodate my "thick" lips and embrechure. I ignored them and played as I had always played.

ONE MUST HOLD THE FLUTE in whatever position he or she feels MOST COMFORTABLE WITH. And that which best suits his or her embrechure and playing style. And, thin or thick lips are a non-issue.

I can't see "what could be more fair" than that --- and how can there could be any argument with that, "Flutist06"??

I hope we are in agreement.

Regards, Jim Millen

You'll note that I did not disagree with your comment that we all must do whatever provides us with the best results, and on that point, we're in perfect agreement. Each person is physically different and has different ideas of what is musical, and must adapt the basic positions/embouchure to their own needs.

I merely disagreed with the idea that JPR played his flute in "almost a vertical position." Since you didn't mean this literally, it turns out I didn't even disagree with your basic idea about how he played...Just the way you wrote it.

Thank you. I hope, that we are "in concert", henceforth.

I will bow to your remarkable scholarship regarding flute construction and playing style(s). I can not possibly match this. Sorry for the mis-information --- I meant Phillip Kaplan, not James Pappoutsakis. As a youngster, growing up in Boston, I met (and talked with) both of them.

As I've said in earlier posts: "you're never too old to learn". And, it becomes more obvious to me, that I can learn much from you and other Members of this Forum.

Regards, Jim Millen

P.S. I'm NOT the "phantom Phil", as referred to in earlier posts. I'm a real person ---- not an Internet presence --- and, yes, I studied with whom I say I studied with, just so that you, and other Members of this (remarkable) and very educating Forum, should know. NOT that that is a singular advantage --- just that, as an old, "set-in his ways" guy, the old saying is: "experience is the best teacher".






Edited by Forum Admin at 05:37 on Friday, October 19, 2007
Reason: no personal info please]