We have held long discussions recently concerning the alleged relationship of sound quality and the type metal used for the HJ and body. The conclusion seems to be that the possible influencece is minimal, if any at all.

I do not want to reopen that discussion, but to my ear, the sound of wood flutes is quite different from the sound of metal flutes.

If the material used in the construction is not important (at least with metals), why is it so noticeable when it comes to wood?

Or is it just that my years get tricked when I see that the flute is made of wood?

If the material used in the construction is not important (at least with metals), why is it so noticeable when it comes to wood?

Probably for the same reason we group different metals together under the rubric metal. After all, there are different kinds of wood too.

Anyway, wood is sweeter, but metal is more brilliant and louder, and over the course of music history more brilliant and louder (especially louder) have triumphed over sweeter. Think of steel strings versus gut strings, guitar nails versus guitar flesh, the violin family versus the viols--and so on.

Jose,
Micron is basically correct. Wood flutes made it well into the 20th century and are still being played today in serious music. (I believe that Yamaha is still selling a wood Boehm flute.)
http://www.musicalinstruments.com/detail.asp?ProductCode=YamYFL874HW

Visit this You Tube at about 1:39 into the vid you will see two players using wood flutes. This vid goes back to 1938
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_W3Q2KpiqbU
ACtually the most unusual thing about the orchestra in that vid is not the flutes. They were probably very common. It's that it is an all female ensemble.
The primary difference in a wood flute is gnerally in the design. Where on the Boehm metal flute, the HJ is tapered and the body has a straight tube, the Hj of most wooden flutes are straight and the body is tapered to narrower at the foot joint. Boehm's designed was concerned with projection, tone, tuning and consistency of these things. Of course head joint design parameters such as hole size/shape undercut are important.

I spoke with a rep from the Abell flute company about his wooden flutes. He claimed that there are only 4 manufactures in the world making a wooden flute. Yamaha is one. He is in Ashville North Carolina and two more are in Europe.

http://www.abellflute.com/theabellflute.html

I know Haynes used to make one. I don't know if they still do.

I like the wooden flute. I tried it. It's different.

oops.

Try this one.


http://www.abellflute.com/

I was referring to Böhm system flutes only

Those you give are solid arguments. The different taper issue is probably important. Also the way that wood can be polished (inside a tapered tube) is probably very different from that attainable on a good metal tube.

I think most of us tend to regard the sound of the wood instruments as more "warm" or "sweet" and other similar concepts, that could only metaphorically be attributed to sound.

A blind test could show that the basis of these attributes are mere sound artifacts or delusions of our eyes/ear/mind... Or not.

Anybody has read about such a blind test?

i definitely can tell. its not because my eyes tell me otherwise either.

if were going that way, why can we tell the difference between plastic and wooden piccolos? because half of the time, they are designed the same exact way.

I made a candid remark and sort of questions on a subject that I knew was prone to controversy.

I would like that the controversy do arise, but in a friendly tone. This is the right way we can learn and discuss about things when different approaches and opinions are known to exist.

Nothing could be farthest to my original intention as to start a fight or personal attacks. I suggest we all make special efforts to ask and reply in a courteous and friendly way. Disagreement is normal and welcome, but always in kind and nice terms.

I always consider everyone in this forum to be positive people, friends or a potential friends, unless it is clearly proved it was not true. And this has happened only in very rare occasions, that fortunately are already buried deep in the past.

We must keep it that way.

concrete and wood are very different than metal... i think that is not a valid comparison.

see these piccolos. bot hby the same manufacturer. and i know you guys can tell the difference. one sounds very empty (like playing in a trash can) and the other sounds bad as well, but sounds more wooden.

http://www.gemeinhardt.com/products/piccolos4P.html

http://www.gemeinhardt.com/products/piccolos4W.html

not all plastic piccs are cylindrical. take a look at the body of a newish plastic picc. they are the conical body you speak of. you can tell just by the look of it.

Sorry, I was not addressing anybody in particular, just the general tone.

But probably I am too much sensitive these days and fearful of things that happened in the past.

Sorry again...

In fact, I don't see a single plastic piccolo on the Fluteworld web site that advertises a cylindrical bore. Did they used to make them without a conical bore?

Does wall thickness play a part in the difference in sounds between metal and wood?

I see the same thing as you! I have never seen a cylindrical bore plastic picc. cylindrical bore METAL piccolos, definitely. so i can definitely understand that the design of these piccs contribute to the difference, but not plastic vs. wood.

please correct me if im wrong in this. and please provide a link to this as well like i did. seeing is truly believing!

http://www.naylors-woodwind-repair.com/Grenadilla.htm

Wood also sound different because it tends to have numerous problems that can and usually do affect it. So what you're hearing as a difference may actually be a defect or a problem that has grown so bad that it needs to be fixed.

Wood is also really hard to keep in top condition. It also can't be machined and worked as precisely as metal, so scale accuracy isn't quite as precise.

Boehm himself recognized this later in life and suggested that a metal body for consistency and a wood headjoint for tone was probably the best compromise, because a wood headjoint affected the tone the most and also was easily replaceable. The body, being metal, was nearly impervious to environmental problems and since it controlled your tuning/notes, this was an optimal choice.

The most famous and often shown picture of him actually has his own flute in such a manner.

http://www.flutehistory.com/Players/Theobald_Boehm/index.php3
Metal body, wood headjoint.

P.S. a neat way to get that wood Yamaha model's sound for a lot less money is to custom order the headjoint. It will fit right onto any Yamaha flute.

it would cost far too much money for a large company to redesign a product for just one model. WAY too much. somehow i think you may be incorrect here. it may vibrate in one way, but whos to say that the vibrations are bounced back differently with, lets say plastic over wood. its kinda like walking in sand versus walking on ice.

listen, all im saying is that when i hear a plastic picc and i hear a wood picc (especially the ones that are designed the exact same, like the gemeinhardts and emersons) i can tell you which one is which. in fact, ill make recordings and have you tell me which is which. but not now because i dont have the resources. ill find some and then that will be the determining factor.

until then, no more argue. because everyone is right until proven otherwise.

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also, what about heavy and thin wall flutes? if its just about the vibrating air column, wouldnt that make the thickness of the metal irrelevant?

and i know thats not true because while play testing, if you cant hear a difference then you must be related to helen keller.

Not to present an argument in favor or against but these pages:
http://www.gemeinhardt.com/products/piccolos4P.html

http://www.gemeinhardt.com/products/piccolos4W.html

Have the very same image of the same piccolo. They are both of a 4W.jpg

I would think that it is a bit more difficult to tell the difference between piccolos but with wood flutes, that aren't lined in metal, I can generally tell I believe because of the bore design, head joint emb. hole and the surface imperfections of wood.

I know thatocccasionally metal players have tried to "imitate" the sound of wood flutes but I don't think that it's adviseable nor successful.