hi,

so this morning i thought i'd check my intonation against a chromatic tuner, and i've found that even with the headjoint all the way in, it's still nearly 1/4 of a semitone flat. i've seen how i can vary the pitch by changing my embouchure, but i can't change it enough to make the note correct (only from around 1/2 a semitone flat to 1/4).

the tuner is intended for fiddle and guitar, but i assume it should work okay with a flute too. is correct intonation just something i need to spend more time on? or could it be my flute is not very good?

Hi, Here's a few things that I'd pay attention if I could be in the room while you are doing this tuning.

1)Check that your tuner is tuning to A=440 (If that is your intended pitch)
many tuners these days can be adjusted (Calibrated) for different reference pitches and yours may have changed to a higher pitch. Check that you are playing the tone that the tuner is expecting. Say, for example that you are using a guitar tuner and it is expecting the note E. You may actually be able to play an A and have it respond because you would be playing a note with an overtone that sounds a weak or otherwise flat E overtone.

2)Check how you are playing the flute. Some people roll the head joint way back and/or blow down a great deal. Your lips may be set so that the top lip may be above the bottom, llke a person with an overbite in their lip position. That would cause you to blow more down. You may also be blowing with a breath support which is not full.

3)Check your flute. It may be that the note that you are trying to tune is not working properly. Check the cork on your flute. It may have moved or it may be loose. Also as an indepth analysis, it may also be that you are actually playing a note 3/4 of a step sharp. In which case, you may need to pull out. ALso, some people mess with head joints some and if they change head joints without measuring the length of the tube, their replacement head joint may be longer and this would cause all notes to be flatter than before. Also, a cold flute will play considerably lower than a warm or room temperature flute because sound travels slower in the colder air in the tube as well as in the room's air.

Finally, I can generally play my flute about 1 whole step flat or about 1/2 step sharp without moving the head joint from my usual position by 'lipping' the pitch up or down and adjusting the support. I usually try not to do that though.

Get a good private teacher.

that is your solution for everything kara, but for most people its not that easy.
is it the head joint that came with the body of the flute? get a couple of other people to try the tuner and see it the get the same results, if they appear in tune then is probally you, or try another tuner, if that doesn't change things take it to a technitian and get them to take a look at it, the cork may have slipped out of place.

No it isn't, I just don't have the time to go into details right now. It is called a life and it tends to get in the way at times. I still like to catch up from time to time. I will let the pro beginners answer the hard question, since they seem to know it all anyway.

Kara's right. Really, if you have a problem, the internet can't really solve it. You need a material person to help you, to fix your instrument, or else many things may go askew.

"
Kara's right. Really, if you have a problem, the internet can't really solve it. You need a material person to help you, to fix your instrument, or else many things may go askew. "
As others have mentioned, a good teacher can be a big help. I s would think that a good teacher could determine if a player is making the pitch go flat almost before one even tries to play a note. Just setting up to play can be enlightening. But even so, they can find an answer quickly for issues that you didn't even know were a problem.

Kara - I'm sorry if my questions annoy you; I understand a teacher is important (or even required) to attain a reasonable skill on an instrument, unless one is a natural. Unfortunately I'm rather short on money at the moment and I can't really afford it. I know the forum isn't a replacement; I don't expect someone here to know exactly what the problem is and how to fix it. On the other hand, I expect most of the problems I'm seeing are common among beginners, so perhaps people can provide useful suggestions.

bilbo - the tuner is set for A=440, it can't be adjusted. I'm using it in chromatic mode rather than 'violin' or 'guitar' mode. I've checked it by tuning my fiddle and then fingering various notes, which it picks up okay. (It also agrees with another tuner.)

I checked the cork position with the cleaning rod; the notch on the rod is at least 5mm off the center of the embouchure hole. I don't know if that's enough to change the pitch this much. I'm loathe to trying adjusting it myself in case I end up damaging the flute ;-) I haven't changed the HJ, it's the one that came with my flute.

I'm afraid don't quite follow what you mean by playing 3/4 sharp; I'm fairly sure I'm fingering the right note?

Hmm, I just noticed the second octave seems to be in tune, although still with the headjoint all the way in. I'll have to revisit how I"m playing the lower octave, perhaps I'm not breathing properly there (I do tend to play it with a lot less air than the second octave).

I think I'll take my flute to the local woodwind shop next week; even if the problem is most likely to be me, it'd ease my mind to know it's not the flute ;-)

You mention you checked your tuner with another tuner and it should be enough. But just in case you want to re-test your tuner, you can check it against any of the many online tone generators.

This one for example: http://www.gieson.com/Library/projects/utilities/tuner/

I checked this tone generator with my own Korg tuner and is calibrated for A=440. The most accurate is the "G", exactly 0/100. "A" gives +6/100 in my tuner.

Kara - I'm sorry if my questions annoy you;

Where and when did I ever say anything about your questions annoying me? I only suggested getting a teacher.

Hi Micron,

My Korg TM-40 has no "guitar setting". Just ON-OFF and a "cal" to set A=xxx. And it is interesting that I bought it in a guitar dealer (Greensburg Guitar & Music). It was described as being good for guitar and for other instruments. It also includes a tone generator (12 notes) and a metronome with tap input and lots of preselected beats.

I do not understand why the notes should be different for guitar than for flute. In any case my suggestion was for testing a tuner to be used in checking the tuning of a flute, so it should be OK for this specific test. There are many other on line tuners and I just chose the first in a Google list (I checked it before posting).

Now, if River's tuner is one for guitar only, for example, it could happen that it measures wrongly in the case of a flute. **That would be quite an interesting discovery!**

It could be that the electronics of different tuners react differently to the harmonic contents of the notes, but I am just guessing. And maybe the specific electronics of the MT-40 could measure correctly in spite of the harmonics of the notes, but I do not know. The fact is that I have no setting for different instruments.

If you know the reason of the discrepancy I would like to know, as we plan to play flute duets with guitar in the coming months. If there is an issue with the tuning, it should be good to know in advance.


<Added>

I`ve re-read the first by River and he says that his tuner is intended for strings. So we could have a point there and it may measure wrongly in case of a flute. Maybe others in the Forum could post their experiences, it is (IMO) very interesting issue.

I see. Thank you for the clarification.

<Added>

My tuner is of the cheap type; it costed me about 25$. Yes, trusting everything in Internet is not a good idea. First thing I did was to check the tones with my tuner before posting and I noticed some fluctuations but not on the G. I did not notice there was a switch for tone / guitar on that page. Sorry

if your cork is so off then take it down to you local music shop with a repairer on site, then they shoud be able to adjust your cork to the correct possition with in a couple of minutes.

If you're getting your cork repaired, then while you're there ask the repairer to test it and check the tuning of it after he/she has repaired it. Maybe take along your tuner and compare it.

I can't imagine how people get on without getting a teacher though.