Hi!

I have one pad on my Yamaha YFL 674 that has become sticky. It is the key pressed with the LH ring finger. The key is "slow", it takes a significant fraction of the second to rise and I get spurious Bflats when I do not need them. I think it happens only after extended practise (say, after one hour)

I use a cigarette paper to "dry" the pad (though it does not seem to be wet) and it seems to work. But I am concerned it may happen again during my audition next Monday. I will play the Bach 1034 Adagio in duet, it takes well over 3 minutes and I have enough risks for errors to allow the instrument add its own.

Is there any other cure, more permanent that the smoking paper?

No time available for repadding or COAs....

Thanks

Thanks. It's an ofsset G flute.
The fact is that I can fix it for a while by drying or cleaning both pads with smoking paper. Were it the pivots it should not work. A COA or technician intervention is out of question right now because I have a class today and will play on Monday!

This is possible in colder climates esp. as people will play flutes with cold surfaces relative to the breath temp. I've had this happen. I know that Jose isn't in a colder climate but the flute tube only has to be colder than his breath temp.

Solution: I'd clean the inside with a damp (Not soaking) swab. & use warm breath and cigarette paper. Go "HaaaaH" close to the pad with wide open mouth and the quickly use the paper. Repeat until the pad doesn't make the sticking sound after you blow the warm breath on the pad without the paper.

Prevention: Warm the flute tube before blowing. floss, brush and rinse teeth. Don't drink sweet or imitation sugar drinks or eat food while playing.

"Were it the pivots it should not work."
As Alieannie mentions, it could be the mechanism, oil or a very slight blow to the tubing of the mech.. This could be combined with a sticky pad but it doesn't have to be. It could also be some minute foreign object like a hair or grain of sand contributing to the issue.

I'd go with sticky pad first. Clean it as described above. The paper wouldn't necessarily have to stick to it though. The paper may feel as if it's in contact with something sticky as you draw it out though.

I don't recommend the pad paper like Yamaha sells as it has powder that can gum up the works.

Also, as a suggestion, when not playing always rest the flute tube with the main body of keys on top. Not upside down.

<Added>

Also, I try not to get into the habit of constantly cleaning the pads as this will wear them out much faster.

Thanks. I will try Bilbo recommendations. Warm breath + cicarette paper.

I am not sure whether the key returns slowly or at normal speed after being stuck. The problem is ocurring rather rarely but it does occur. Next time I will check that before jumping to the cigarette paper to clean the pad.

The preventive measures are important and normally I comply with all of them.

But sometimes I drink sugarless tea and continue practising shortly after and this might have caused the problem. I had my lesson today, an hour plus previous 15' excercises plus a couple of hours this morning and it did not happen.

Hope it continues to be so on monday...

"Bilbo wrote "I don't recommend the pad paper like Yamaha sells as it has powder that can gum up the works."

I disagree. You don't put it on "the works", presumably meaning the mechanism. "
>>>>>>>
Micron, I was meaning that it will stick to and add to pad issues for the pad membrane and not the mechanism which is also another good reason not to get too much powdery things around the flute. This would include polishing cloths.
I still stand by my recommendation.


MIcron also said:
"Yes, some people plaster thick powder all over the place, and this is damaging both to the mechanism and sometimes to the silver plating. That, and the judicious use of powder paper are poles apart."

This is quite true.
One of our concerns with describing these things on the internet in writing (or even with detailed in person instruction) is always going to be the understanding of the intent and then the subsequent use of the instruction.

"Indeed, many sax and oboe players would far rather deal with a problem themselves than than trust the local so-called technician."

If only Flutists were taught to be so self sufficient. ;-)

I think that one of the issues with flutes and most likely even oboes to some extent is a higher degree of volatility in the maintenance issue. For example a pad might be placed "near to correct" at the time of repair by a responsible technician and in short order it's changed for whatever reason. As you are aware of this sort of repair difficulty, I'd say that some techs either don't concern themselves or they are in a hurry to get through a stack of instruments. (Time IS money for them.) Of course sometimes the problem lies in the flutist's description of the issues. For example, in my location, the repair tech is often not available to discuss the specifics of the flute that is in for repair with the player/teacher. He comes around periodically and collects the instruments. His information is then limited usually to what the student says to the counter help and what that person happens to write on a card that is about 6X6cm square. He of course is also open to his efforts at discovering other issues but in effect, the process can be inaccurate. Someone may write, "Bb needs adjusting." on the card where in actuality, a screw keeps working loose and a simple adjustment of it would serve only temporarily.

But back to the pad papers, Of course the general perception of "those that know" or think that they know is that the powder can build up on a sticky pad/tone hole edge like flour on a wet spoon. I would tend to agree with you that the amount of build-up isn't very significant. The real issue of concern for me with using pad papers of any kind is overuse/habitual cleaning. ~Same goes for polishing cloths. It is my belief that both can wear out the pads significantly faster than a moderate use regime.

Jose mentioned drinking unsweetened tea that may have caused stickiness. I'd say that if the tea is genuinely unsweetened, I'd doubt it. However, if the tea was warm/hot, then it may significantly raise the breath's humidity and temperature as it passes through the mouth cavity. This warmer breath may then serve to soften the sticky substance that had accumulated on the pad and the pad release will make the sticky noise or the pad may even stick shut.

Of course other variables may be the case such as drinking warm unsweetened tea after having a big helping of caramel corn but not cleaning the mouth.

possibly a bug....however it happens, it does seem to happen to some. I think that it may be related to a lot of circumstance factors. One important one could be room/flute temperature.

<Added>

Now Jose isn't a young child but with children, you never know what the factors are. I've had band directors recommend folding money for fixing this on flutes so it's conceivable that a young student may try using something like an old candy wrapper to clean their pads. I had one beginner student once oil the pads before they were educated on the flute maintenance kit equipment.

Well my question has risen to high levels of discussion and this is very interesting. Thank you for sharing your knowledge.

Right now I feel very, very reluctant to do just anything to my flute with my audition coming in less than 24 hours. I plan to use the cigarette paper before the audition and just after we finish rehearsing (except that the key gets sticky before that moment). So far it has behaved well in spite of rather long time practicing.

Not for now, but maybe in the future, I would like to know: putting some talcum powder on a cigarette paper (just the quantity that sticks to the paper after shaking it so that any powder excess falls away), could be acceptable or you are talking about any other special powder /powder paper?

Also,

"Paper (or Q-tips) damp with moisture will remove only water-soluble contaminants such as sugar. Try with paper damp with naphtha (lighter fluid) for greasy or oily material. Try paper damp with alcohol for gummy contaminants. For more stubborn gummy material, acetone is much better."

I tremble at the idea of using any of those liquids, even (water -moisture?) damped paper seems to me to be too aggressive for the membrane, but it is just my novice impression. I did not know that these thin membranes could stand the contact with those (strong) solvents

I do drink only unsweetened tea, but I forgot to add that I "cut" it with some low-fat milk to make it less aggressive to my stomach. Anyway I have stopped drinking anything short before practicing.

The first time the key stuck was during a class, far from the home environment and not having taken anything at least one hour before it. But there may be an accumulative process that showed up that particular day. The room where I have my lessons is used only for that purpose and it is warm and big enough so that there is no perceptible accumulation of human-produced humidity. (this was not the case in a previous school with much smaller classrooms). There are no smokers in the school -and no frying oils, neither at school of course, nor at home.

"Here, flute students, including beginners, are almost always taught by accomplished flute players, so we get little of that sort of problem."

Perhaps you are insinuating that I should turn over my students to one who is infact "accomplished".

Jose,
The paper that is sold by some music industry companies such as Yamaha has some sort of powder already on it to dampen the effects of the stickiness. I would not bother with it as it's far more expensive than cig. paper and from most flute people, considered to be not necessarily desirable.

"
I tremble at the idea of using any of those liquids, even (water -moisture?) damped paper seems to me to be too aggressive for the membrane, but it is just my novice impression."

I agree. The possibility of doing damage even if the instruction is understood to the letter is always there.

"I do drink only unsweetened tea, but I forgot to add that I "cut" it with some low-fat milk"

Alas, by doing this, you've just sweetened the tea.

BTW: for some readers out there Micron and I have had this discussion/or some such similar discussion once or twice before.
It goes like this: I say that, the liquids in the mouth become part of the moisture in the exhaled breath by atomizing into it as we blow out thus causing a very minute amount of sugars and impurities to condense on the colder areas of the flute, like the pads. He says, "not likely."

Then I say that no matter what the impurities on the pads which cause this issue, it acts like sugar in that by moisturizing it ever so much with warm breath, it can soften and be removed. The problem is though, how much is there and how to remove it as it could become impregnated into the membrane somewhat and is rather tenacious.

Oh for the love of God! Micron just give it a rest! This is why I don't post much anymore. I don't want to deal with this type of nonsense and put downs.

Hello I am new to this forum but just from reading a couple of posts it seems like micron has probs with not being 'on top' with all the answers. Were you an only child micron? Kinda feels like you have a bunch of self-righteousness lingering around you anywhere you go here. Also kinda annoying, yah?

i have played my flute after eating sticky stuff, and my brother tried to play it after eating a short bread biscuit,the only thing that happened was a bit of sticky on the lip plate, nothing inside the headjoint, my friend used to play after eating all the time, and it did her no harm

I did not personally attack you Micron. I don't know the other person who just posted. It only goes to show that I am not the only one that gets tired of your rudeness and speaks up. Go figure! Have the moderator check the account and see if it is linked to me if it makes you feel any better. I don't offer much advice on this forum anymore because of this reason, I got tired of defending every word and fighting you on it. That is the only way we can keep peace around here.

Am I missing something? Where was the emotional outburst?

Back to the original post. On eating food or candy during or before playing the flute is not something I do without brushing my teeth first and rinsing my mouth out. Personally, I think it is gross. Think about it... so you eat something and a little piece gets stuck between your teeth without you knowing it. Then, you give a big blow into the flute and out it comes logging right into the embouchure hole or into your flute. Ewwww.... lolol!! I wash my hands before playing also.