Does anyone care to help debunk the 'open hole flutes have a more open tone' theory?

My idea:
Take a good open hole flute, that has keys that can be plugged and unplugged easily. (perhaps by plastic student plugs, or Powell Plug-Os)

Have two flute players to play the flute. The first would be the one with the best flute tone. He/she would be blindfolded, and play the flute without hands on the keys. Perhaps holding the barrel would help.
The second flute player would move the keys, to finger notes on a particular scale and then a brief musical passage. Then, player 2 would either remove or put in plugs, with player 1 not knowing which, and the scale and brief musical passage repeated.

Obviously, the two players would have to rehearse this until they were both comfortable 'playing' the flute at once.

This way, you could set up a double blind test, where neither the 'player' (blower!) and the listner (via sound files) knows whether the holes are plugged or not. And then we could all listen for this 'open hole flutes have a more open tone', and hopefully a)put it to rest and b)leave it as a reference to those who want to argue about open holes and tone.

I would suggest also that the flute be tested at the shop of a good technician, or be fresh from the shop, to remove the possible effect of padding leaks on the flute's tone.

I've actually tried playing my flute with someone else fingering just a scale..and its actually really hard to play like that! Maybe with a lot of practice with both people you could get the flute to sound like it would with just one person playing..

if you've never tried playing like that, you should lol. Its a lot harder than it sounds! Plus I kept laughing which didn't make it go any better :P We did this for a clinic (cannot remember exactly what the point was.. there was a point, though! I think embouchure work?)

But its really hard.. its a good idea to test the open holes vs. not, but i think that the sound a player would get with someone else doing the fingers would not be the same as what they are capable from getting by themselves.. mostly just because you wouldn't know as when/how to change your embouchure based on the range etc.. if you knew exactly what the other person was going to do it might also make it easier on the blower.. so maybe just a bunch of practice would be necessary in order to make it work?

I hope that makes sense..

quote" so maybe just a bunch of practice would be necessary in order to make it work?"

Absolutely.

But it would be necessary that the 'player' creating the tone doesn't know whether he is playing open or closed tone holes. I can't figure any way that someone would not feel the open vs. plugged, and thus know what he's playing, which makes the 'test' not particularly scientifically valid.

I did this in high school, just messing around, when my best friend broke her arm. And it IS difficult. If someone has a regular duet partner, that might make it easier since the two already know the others' nuances during playing. And I'm hoping that a nice scale or two (covering two octaves, especially showing the difference between covered-open-hole-notes such as low C through Eb, and open-open-hole notes such as C, left-hand B and Bb, and A) would just about be enough to 'show' how this works.

Perhaps also we would want to demonstrate tone changes with an Eb2 played first without, then with (wrong fingering) LH1, and also the F# on the staff played with RH2, then RH3, so that we can hear icky vs clear tone on the recordings.

Two people playing one flute,,a little like this,,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkJ03vm8FJk

I think that it is all marketing hype myself. Along with the common other such as..

* A B footjoint means it is a professional model flute
* Gold plating on the lip plate darkens or improves the sound of a flute
* Open holes on a flute means it is a pro flute
* Solid silver is better than a silver plated flute

I see these kind of descriptions all the time on ebay. Ugh!

Anyone want to add some more?

To Add:

* French point arms automatically make a flute pro
* Adding a C# Trill makes a flute pro

* Soldered tone holes vs. rolled tone holes

Kara: I might take a minor exception with the inclusion of "Solid silver is better than a silver plated flute". Granted, there is very little difference in the body, but in the headjoint, silver does seem to contribute "something" to the sound. Now, it's also very possible that because the silver headjoints (and bodies) cost more to produce, the manufacturers do less machine-built and do more hand-made to take greater care that everything is just right. That is another factor left out of the equation here.

Argue:

Silver plated headjoint with handcut headjoint vs. Solid silver headjoint without handcut.

ex: Altus headjoinnt from an 807 vs. a Gemeinhardt headjoint from a 3SB. Hm... which would you choose??? I think the cut has more to do with anything over the material. But the material certainly has an effect on the sound.
another
ex: silver plated Altus hj from said 807 vs. anther Altus from lets say... an 1107. TYPICALLY the one from the 1107 will sound "better" but, of course, since they are handcut, you are bound to find an exception to this. BUT ON AVERAGE, this is the case.

I believe that material can make a difference but I also believe that it is more in the design that makes the overall difference. So I am with you on that Mbrown.

This was quoted by a flute shop...

"Like most American flutes, it's better with a B footjoint, but at only £200 more this is still great value. Try it with a 14k riser for a richer sound and slightly more resistance."

Would this be a gimmick too? or do American flutes sound better with a b foot joint?? Its for a Haynes classic Q2 flute.

hhhhhmmmmmm...... i have open holes on my flute but its still some obscure student flute, i see the comments on ebay all the time, open flute obviously won't make ou sound like a pro, flute lessons do that! given the choice now between a yamaha with closed hole(in good condtion) or my flute i'd go for the yamaha despite mine having open oles as the yamaha would be better quality (if my dad wasn't handy with a scew driver my flute would have fallen apart by now).

You're lucky that your dad has a good touch with the screwdriver. Not all are so lucky. I once had a student that decided to clean her flute with silver polish. Unfortunately, she did not get all of the polish residue out of the barrel. When the headjoint was inserted, it got stuck. So, dad decides to put the flute in a bench vise and try to twist out the headjoint using vise-grip pliers. Needless to say, there wasn't much left of that flute when he finished. The barrel, body, and headjoint were bent and warped and he completely twisted the barrel off the body. While it could have been fixed, it was a Bundy flute, so it wasn't worth the repair charge. That one went into the repair shop boneyard for parts.