Re: Index finger pain?

    
Re: Index finger pain?    10:20 on Wednesday, November 18, 2009          

jose_luis
(2369 points)
Posted by jose_luis

It's an interesting point. I could not compare in any way to him, except perhaps in having similar indentation on my left finger. But not on the left thumb, which I think I press like a clamp.

So it could be I am doing something wrong in my flute hold and it is not my skin type the reason of the callus I have.

No problems with tendons or joints so far, but they may come.

I will take your comments into good account. Right now I am reworking everything because the Nagahara headjoint is quite different in many aspects and this forces me to change embouchure, position and pressure on my chin among many other things.

It could be a good opportunity to reduce the pressure on my index, if a I am able.


Re: Index finger pain?    10:32 on Wednesday, November 18, 2009          

Bilbo
(1340 points)
Posted by Bilbo

Consider trying to support the flute more from underneath. The points of support are LH1 R Thumb Pointing up ~45 deg behind/below the tube. and the RH index key.
Then the point of light contact is low on the chin. -but much of that depends upon the player. With lighter contact the flute is allowed some freedom to vibrate.

This works as long as the key pads are functioning properly.
If you are clamping, you will create tension with the finger motion.
The true issue with moving the fingers is lifting them and this is more of an issue if you 'clamp' them. You need enough security in your support so that finger motion doesn't cause the flute to move on the chin appreciably.

~bilbo
N.E. Ohio

<Added>

In some respects "less is more."

With the flute it's all about coordination and control.
Not strength so much.
A lot of this aspect of Flute technique is a mind game....mind over body.
Rehearse, practice, develop coordination...all that good stuff.


Re: Index finger pain?    10:41 on Wednesday, November 18, 2009          

jose_luis
(2369 points)
Posted by jose_luis

I think we are crossing our messages and there could be a little confusion, but I have followed so far.

When in London, I took one hour lesson with Uberto, an italian flutist that plays on a Nagahara. He was the person who helped me deciding on that particular HJ. He commented on my playing a few things:

- That I was not covering the BH enough. He recommended covering about a third of the B.H
His remark could be totally incidental, as I was playing the first minutes with the new HJ and I was doing whatever I could to make it sing at best. In normal practice, I find myself often "eating" the flute, covering so much that the sound deteriorates.

- he also said I should advance more my chin (jaw) and free my lips more. In fact, this headjoint requires a thin stream of air, not necessarily too strong to sound the notes on the third octave, most particularly the F sharp. Blowing stronger does not work, if the embouchure is not modified accordingly.

This change in the jaw and lips position is most difficult and sometimes the flute does not sing at all. But I could take profit of the crisis to correct the index pressure. Will see.

- He recommended the Moyse "de la Sonorité and I bought it there. I am rading it and have started working on it.I notice improvements already.

Another interesting issue is that on the first hours after I bought the HJ, I had to take out about 3/4+" of the it to tune decently the second octave. After a few days, I am taking out about 3/8" only.


<Added>

Sorry, I meant tune decently the A on the first octave.


Re: Index finger pain?    11:39 on Wednesday, November 18, 2009          

Bilbo
(1340 points)
Posted by Bilbo

When in London, I took one hour lesson with Uberto, an italian flutist that plays on a Nagahara. He was the person who helped me deciding on that particular HJ. He commented on my playing a few things:

- That I was not covering the BH enough. He recommended covering about a third of the B.H
His remark could be totally incidental,

Although some instructors want a person to over-correct. This is fairly exact in description and is consistent with other fine instructors back to Quantz. Sir James appears to cover considerably more.

as I was playing the first minutes with the new HJ and I was doing whatever I could to make it sing at best. In normal practice, I find myself often "eating" the flute, covering so much that the sound deteriorates.


I'm positive that he recommended a mirror. I'd do this for a few minutes daily to connect the mind's eye with the factual feel.

- he also said I should advance more my chin (jaw) and free my lips more. In fact, this headjoint requires a thin stream of air, not necessarily too strong to sound the notes on the third octave, most particularly the F sharp. Blowing stronger does not work, if the embouchure is not modified accordingly.


THe embouchure does need modification in the higher notes to control the tone. Meerley blowing harder is wrong....another point that goes back to Quantz.

This change in the jaw and lips position is most difficult and sometimes the flute does not sing at all. But I could take profit of the crisis to correct the index pressure. Will see.
There is a discussion on GFC about this Jutting of the jaw and the lips. "IF" you don't have a considerable overbite, jutting the jaw isn't necessary. It does take a fairly strong forward lower lip and the lips do need to be in line with the airstream. Otherwise as you go up, the airstream angle may change adversely.

- He recommended the Moyse "de la Sonorité and I bought it there. I am rading it and have started working on it.I notice improvements already.


Very good. It is THE tone book. don't forget to try to methodically go through the whole book. As you get more familiarity, use his exercises on pieces....adagios and andanti.

Another interesting issue is that on the first hours after I bought the HJ, I had to take out about 3/4+" of the it to tune decently the second octave. After a few days, I am taking out about 3/8" only....
Sorry, I meant tune decently the A on the first octave.


A change in this tuning can be a result of a few factors. Has your locale temperature changed? Is it lower? Generally, as your embouchure gets stronger the pitch may rise. If it has dropped, then you may be rolling the embouchure hole back even further.

~bilbo
N.E. Ohio



Re: Index finger pain?    04:52 on Thursday, November 19, 2009          

jose_luis
(2369 points)
Posted by jose_luis

"A change in this tuning can be a result of a few factors. Has your locale temperature changed? Is it lower? Generally, as your embouchure gets stronger the pitch may rise. If it has dropped, then you may be rolling the embouchure hole back even further."

The temperature may have changed a few degrees, but has always been indoor ambient. I do not think that would be the cause for such big change. At least, I had never observed that amount of change with my previous HJ.

I have noticed that the Nagahara DA cut is quite sensitive to changes in the angle of the air stream. But does this mean I am rolling back, which is the contrary of what I had been trying to do? Bad news, then. Definitely, I will begin every daily practise with a mirror in front (as Uberto did). Could it be I am blowing more down (vertically) without rolling back too much? (just a hope)

Now I believe that 3/4" off for any HJ of the same length (both my previous Yamaha EC and the new Nahara DA are almost equal in length) would be too much, so I was happy that I had been approaching my previous off distance, that was about 1/8" with the Yamaha EC.


<Added>

I do have some overbite,my lower teeth fit behind the upper teeth, with a separation of about 2 mm


Re: Index finger pain?    08:35 on Thursday, November 19, 2009          

jose_luis
(2369 points)
Posted by jose_luis

I think I misunderstood the term "rollback". A it means shortening the distance between the lips and the edge of the blowing hole, I believe now that I was doing what I intended. Good news, then.



Re: Index finger pain?    11:24 on Thursday, November 19, 2009          

Bilbo
(1340 points)
Posted by Bilbo

Yes Jose Luis,
When we speak of rolling back, it is rotating the flute back on the chin.
This changes the blowing angle as well as how much of the embouchure blowing hole that is covered. These two aspects have different consequences on the tone.

Bilbo,
n.e. ohio


Re: Index finger pain?    17:46 on Wednesday, November 25, 2009          

Swily_Staff
(20 points)
Posted by Swily_Staff

I bend and fall.The first couple times will hurt but i have learned to kind of lift it up rather then resting on the finger and now it takes hoyurs for mine to hurt.I suggest making or have you grams knit up a pair of *finger protectors*


   








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