Hi ya'll, newbie here, I am in the US and want to buy a better flute, hopefully after playing it first or from a place with trial-return policy, and hopefully under $1000, so doesn't have to be new, just new to me.

I'm attracted to the Azumi but does anyone have them in closed-hole/C-foot? I'm guessing it's just that I'm not looking hard enough. I did find that setup available from a source in Europe. I also found the DiZhao brand, based in Boston I think, seems to be another with the high-end head on an Asian-sourced body, but they -do- offer the plateau/C-foot combination on their entry-level model and they tell me the headjoint is the same cut used on their upscale models. Anyone here play a DiZhao?

I have a Yamaha 225 that is sufficient for what I do (solo etudes and CD playalongs at the end of the workday) and I don't plan on making money fluting around but I'd still like to try out some alternatives with different headjoint cuts. I just wouldn't want to pay good money for a hybrid-type model that turns out to need more maintenance than my Yamaha (which is almost never....)

In your price range and with those specifications, the pickings are slim. Most of the intermediate/semi-pro flutes are open hole w/low B. AFIK, Azumi does not make closed hole/plateau models. Among the few in your price range are the Yamaha 321 and 421. Those models add a sterling headjoint, but the bodies are plated and not much different than the Yamaha 225 that you are playing now. Di Zhao makes a closed hole model but it is a student level flute. All of their step-up flutes have open holes and low B.

You could always get an open hole flute and put plugs in to effectively make it a closed hole, but most of them come with a low B. A few of the pro flute makers offer a C foot as an option but those will be out of your price range.

A few things to add as I have recently had the same problem;

Azumi has an altus head, but it gives alot of resistance. Playing the very high notes clearly is very difficult, if not impossible. I had an azumi 2000 for a while but realised that the head was to fault for my high notes not me. I now have a miyazawa 102.

The pearl flutes offer too much resistance on the high notes also. I didn't like the cut at all and it doesn't allow slurred jumping between octaves with ease. Yamaha are ok, but the Sankyo reigns supreme for playability all through the ranges, beautiful, well focused high notes, and loads of colour at the bottom. you can go from C1 to C4 slurring without even trying. The miyazawa (solid lip plate only) falls slightly short of the sankyo (solid head etude/201) in support on the high notes (though only just) and it's noisy mechanism irritates me. The Sankyo is soundless. The Muramatsu's are in the same league as the sankyo's.

For your budget you can get a muramatsu, sankyo or miyazawa (solid head great for the high reg but still noisy mech...) so don't even think of going for a pearl, yamaha or azumi, they don't even compare. The japanese flutes pretty much play themselves.

Go into a good flute shop, decide on a flute, then get it on ebay unless they have a good used one there in the shop.

Or you could stick a handmade head in your body. again with the going to the flute shop and trying it out. handmade heads don't really lose their value and you're unlikely to find one on ebay, that's something you'll have to get from a shop.

Btw the azumi does come with plateau keys in the UK. and C foot.

http://www.thewindsection.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=26_22_47_64&products_id=16

but it still sucks.

Sorry, one more thing to add, DON'T GO NEAR BUFFET FLUTES!!!!!!!!!

My Buffet growing up, made of brass, corroding before my eyes, was sitting in my arms being attacked with a screwdriver more than it was being played. Same with my best friends identical flute. Maybe they have improved, maybe they haven't, I don't know this was coming up to 20 years ago.

Apologies to Buffet if they have improved since then.

Suzie, I almost feel I owe you an apology for the effort you put into that post. I'm sure other readers also will benefit from it. Lots of good points and yeah, I've been on the bay looking and am now drooling over that Muramatsu.

The headjoint-only upgrade is something I've kept in mind. If I can find a vendor that allows trials, that might actually be the best option for me right now (though I secretly want that Muramatsu....)

<Added>

Oh yeah, Musicman, did you play the Di Zhao?

FallenStar, your impressions of the Azumi (and Altus) are a good example that shows no given flute is going to please everyone. I've also read that some think the Azumi is 'bright,' though I suspect that really is more a function of the player's ability. Your comment on resistance is new though. Most comments I've seen leave the impression the Azumis are easy-blowing. I haven't even touched one (let alone the more pricy Altus).

I tried some of the DiZhao flutes at the NFA convention this summer, and I didn't like them at all.

The "commercial model" Haynes flutes from the 50s and 60s are a joy to play, and they all have plateau keys and C foots. The only drawback is that they have very traditional headjoint cuts that play very sweetly, but don't project as well as more modern cuts. If you're looking for projection, they wouldn't work as well.

I think that Amadeus flutes have the option of plateau keys and a C-foot. Here's a shop that says that is an option.

http://judiswwshop.com/flutes/haynes.html

Amadeus are like Azumi in the respect that they have a professional Haynes headjoint, and a normal body. The 600 has the Haynes headjoint and a silver plated body. It's a tiny bit over $1000, but it might be woth it.

The Amadeus website shows C or B foot options, but only open hole models with plugs available to convert to plateau.

http://www.amadeusflutes.com/

"Go into a good flute shop, decide on a flute, then get it on ebay unless they have a good used one there in the shop."

I would suggest that you do NOT do this, for two reasons: First, the flutes you are considering will mostly have handcut headjoints. This means that there will be variance between them. (My flute-teacher friend had a student looking at two Amadeus flutes with the "same" headjoint, and they were markedly different in response, and in fact you could see that the shape of the embouchure hole was different between the two.) I bought a lovely Yamaha 881 off eBay a few years ago, the flute is awesome but its headjoint was weird- it must have been a 'second' which quality control didn't notice to send back to be melted down. It was supposed to be a hand-cut CY (most of the Yamaha CY heads are machine-cut and very consistent) but didn't play like one at all. If you find a handmade headjoint that really floats your boat then buy THAT one! Or, risk getting one that is similar but just not quite the same, or even risk getting a poor one. And while there are fabulous things to find on eBay, a well-made, standard model flute that nobody bought in-store might just be at a big discount because nobody who played it really liked how it played!

Second, trial-by-retail and then leaving to buy by internet is not something that I consider appropriate behavior. Now, finding a flute in-store, and asking the salesman if they can get close to the internet price is ok, and our local stores will do everything they can to get close to the price. But in my opinion, trying something in a retail store and buying online is morally wrong. (Note, this is my OPINION!!) You have just taken advantage of the retail store's $$$ investment in rent, upkeep, and inventory. Buying the same model by mail order is taking advantage of the retail store. Besides, good retail stores generally have great repair techs, and will take care of you and your flute- which can make the price difference.

By the way, I don't think there's anything wrong with buying an internet flute (www.usedflutes.com, eBay, craigslist, etc) especially if you can do a trial. My local music store owner would be happy to let you bring in internet-on-trial-flutes to play beside his retail flutes, and can look at the others and tell you if they need some leaks fixed.

I do think that your Yamaha 200-series will do you just fine, especially if you put a different headjoint in it. I have had good luck with Sankyo (NRS-1 model), Miyazawa and Yamaha heads in my Yamaha flute. You might try a Yamaha EC headjoint, they are standard in the 500-series on up, and many players really like them. If you feel ambitious, you might try a Nagahara HJ, which if I remember right start at $1250 or so for all-silver, and get more expensive with gold risers and such.

Weelllll..... been a couple weeks and now I'm spending too much time browsing through the ebay listings of those nicer flutes. I hope no one will mind if I ask yet another question.

I've been following a couple of those Muramatsu auctions for the M-120 models. They look kinda plain, no pointy keys, adjustment screws on top, etc. From what I can tell, that model was in production maybe 15-20 years ago? I'd guess Mura like most other makers has changed their scales and headjoint cuts over that time, but I keep seeing these auctions pop up with titles like M-120 (=EX). The sellers seem to think or at least want me to think an M-120 and a current EX are the same thing?

Are they (for all intents and purposes)? Same scale, same headjoint cut? (<- that was my question, took a lot of air to get there.)

I'm kinda gun-shy about buying through ebay anyway, especially from sellers that do not offer any kind of return policy, but I have noticed this "M-120 is the same as the current EX" assertion on other sites, too.

First, I would steer away from a 'no returns' flute, period, unless it is so heavily discounted (and well photographed) that you can afford to buy it and be OK financially if the flute is not 'all that'.
I bought a no-return Miyazawa headjoint for $300 off eBay, (it was in a pawn shop in Florida) knowing that it should have a minimum $250 resale value if I didn't like it. But a whole flute, which might or might not need service work or a complete overhaul when you get it home, is a much more risky proposition.

Second, the older headjoints (20 or 30 years old or more) are usually not going to be a match for the newer ones (10 years or newer). Keep in mind that a new Gemeinhardt J1 will probably be just like a 20 year old J1- by new I mean new engineering, such as Sankyo NRS-1, Yamaha EC, Pearl Forza, Azumi, and such. An older headjoint on an excellent flute will likely need to be replaced if you want a really responsive and 'easy' flute. Then, you have to be sure that the scale on the flute is reasonably modern as well.

Third, adjustment screws are a GOOD thing. Small adjustments on a flute without adjustment screws have to be made by taking the flute apart and shimming pads. It is much more cost effective, and faster, to simply turn a screw a bit. My local tech probably wouldn't even charge if he saw one small leak that he could remedy by moving an adjustment screw a little bit, but a re-shim would definitely cost money.

Third, adjustment screws are a GOOD thing. Small adjustments on a flute without adjustment screws have to be made by taking the flute apart and shimming pads. It is much more cost effective, and faster, to simply turn a screw a bit. My local tech probably wouldn't even charge if he saw one small leak that he could remedy by moving an adjustment screw a little bit, but a re-shim would definitely cost money.

I both agree and disagree that adjustment screws are good. From the perspective of flute technician, adjustment screws are good. It makes key adjustments easier which in turn means lower maintenance costs for the owner. The bad side of adjustment screws is that sometimes inexperienced players can't resist the temptation of "adjusting" their flute, but in the process literally "screw" things up.

Also, a minor clarification about shimming. Adjustment screws really have little or no effect when pads need shimming. Pad shims are used to ensure that each pad individually contacts the tone hole rim equally around all 360° of the pad surface. Adjustment screws (or in their absence, thin pieces of cork, felt, or leather), however, are used to adjust various keys that must close together in synchronization with another key.

In general, pad shimming is done first to ensure that each pad completely covers the tone hole when the key is closed. After the shimming is complete, the keys are adjusted to synchronize the closing of cooperating keys.

I guess I should've made my question clearer.

Do any of you know whether the Mura M120 and the EX models are fundamentally the same thing (same scale, same head cut....)? Online sellers seem to be doing their best to make or milk this connection. My thought is that maybe the only real connection is marketing: that Mura dropped the M120 and replaced it in their lineup with the EX series, which may be an entirely different flute, acoustically speaking.

To Micron, yeah that's definitely a thought I'm pursuing; I have a Yama 225 and it may or may not be a good match, but today I am still allowing myself the luxury of believing I might actually buy the whole schmeer.