Curious about the Be-bop

    
Curious about the Be-bop    13:23 on Wednesday, February 10, 2010          

jose_luis
(2369 points)
Posted by jose_luis

Hi!
I have seen this device mentioned several times and googled it but cannot find where or who sells it. Not to mention what it is, really.

Anybody can tell me? Thanks.


Re: Curious about the Be-bop    13:56 on Wednesday, February 10, 2010          

musicman_944
(257 points)
Posted by musicman_944

It's actually called a Bo-Pep. That's why you couldn't find anything about it. Lots of places sell it. Here's a link to it on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/Bo-Pep-A13-BP601-Flute-Finger-Saddle/dp/B0002F5IJ6


Re: Curious about the Be-bop    15:36 on Wednesday, February 10, 2010          

jose_luis
(2369 points)
Posted by jose_luis

Thanks. May I ask:

- Anybody using it as rest for the LH index?
- Does it reduce the mobility of the finger in fast passages?
- Does it help in the case of growing/sometimes hurting callus on the LH finger (my case)?
- Is it a useless gadget or nor recommendable for some reason?


Re: Curious about the Be-bop    21:02 on Wednesday, February 10, 2010          

Pyrioni
(437 points)
Posted by Pyrioni

Sorry, I just love physics.

Flute body is a perfectly round metal tube.

Round tube means what? It means its contact point with your index-finger-joint is very small - only one contact point.

Small contact point means what? It means a lot of pressure! "Pressure = Weight / Surface Area"

A lot of pressure means what? It means a lot of Pain to your index skin, and causes big Callus like mine:
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n55/Sebastianchan17/2.jpg
and Galway:
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n55/Sebastianchan17/1.gif
and yours...

But callus and index pain will not cripple you. and Small Contact Point means good Mobility.

Putting some plastic or rubber gadget on flute body to ease the pain, how does it work? It increases Surface Area (or contract point), so that your pressure is reduced (pressure=weight/surface area).

Yes, it relieves your pain and callus problem, but since the surface area is increased, also means the Mobility of your index finger joint is Reduced!

After your mobilty of your index finger joint is reduced because of the flat surface of your gadget, you will have to rely heavily on your 1st and 2nd index finger joints to press the key, that will reduce your speed during fast passages. It also gives heavily load on your 1st and 2nd joints, more pain will come to your finger joints if you practice more.

Also, the gadget is holding your flute further away from your LH fingers, this means what? It means, you have to scretch your fingers more (flatten your fingers more), this will be very tiring for your fingers.

I think an offset-G flute is already a perfect design for us. Since masters in the world playing flute for 40-60 years ths way and were never crippled, I believe added gadgets are useless.

<Added>

Like my teacher always says to students, if your body is not built for flute, then it is best to give up now and try something else, because flute world is very competitive!

But of course jose you are an adult learner and you play for fun or just entertain yourself, then you can always get the gadget to help you anytime, why endure the pain when you can always play sweet tone on slow pieces and enjoy. :)

<Added>

You can also try make Jennifer Cluff's aid:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCQQB9dAzFw (3:21)


Re: Curious about the Be-bop    03:39 on Thursday, February 11, 2010          

jose_luis
(2369 points)
Posted by jose_luis

Thank you for your so much detailed explanation.

Have you tried any of these gadgets?


Re: Curious about the Be-bop    04:31 on Thursday, February 11, 2010          

Pyrioni
(437 points)
Posted by Pyrioni

Yes, I have tried Thumbport, I bought it from local music store, $23, because everyone on the web said it was good. I used it for one day, then I gave it away to my cousin, she used it for also one day and she threw it away, because we didn't like it and we think it was useless to us...

- if you are using the old 4-point holding, thumbport helps you to cheat, yeah it's great, but you don't learn the basic holding of a flute, and finger coordination.

- if you are using the new 3-point holding, thumbport is useless, and it increases the thickness of the flute's outter wall, it will make all your right-hand fingers stretched and flat, and you can't even close the open holes correctly with your fingers, UNLESS you have long fingers like Jeniffer Cluff.

I don't have Bo-bep, but I have tried Jeniffer Cluff's method - using pencil grip to makeshift. But it increased the friction on my index joint and slightly reduces mobility during fast passages, it also makes my finger tiring, but that's only me, you can try it yourself and tell us what you think, the pencil grip costs only $0.6 each.


Re: Curious about the Be-bop    05:23 on Thursday, February 11, 2010          

Pyrioni
(437 points)
Posted by Pyrioni

You can make the grip with pencil grip:

Jeniffer Cluff uses blu-tack to adhere on to the flute, but I prefer contact-cement, more stronger, becuz I move my finger a lot:

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n55/Sebastianchan17/DSC05006.jpg


Re: Curious about the Be-bop    06:08 on Thursday, February 11, 2010          

InstrumentCrazy
(219 points)
Posted by InstrumentCrazy

Jose-luis: Once I get mine I will tell you how I like it. It should arrive soon...


Re: Curious about the Be-bop    14:12 on Thursday, February 11, 2010          

Tibbiecow
(480 points)
Posted by Tibbiecow

- Anybody using it as rest for the LH index?
- Does it reduce the mobility of the finger in fast passages?
- Does it help in the case of growing/sometimes hurting callus on the LH finger (my case)?
- Is it a useless gadget or nor recommendable for some reason?


1)For me, no. Without the Bo-pep my finger is flexed more which slows finger speed for me. Additionally, if my knuckle is sore from holding the flute without the Bo-pep (and practicing a bunch), then first-finger mobility gets slowed down.
For others, whose hand conformation and muscle-memory in the hand is different, a slowing of finger speed might be noticeable.
2)I have no callus. The Bo-pep keeps it away. I have 'moleskin' stuck to my Bo-pep so that it is not slippery.
3)For some people, it will not help. For others, it will make playing more ergonomic and less painful. I would recommend that you try a few of these gadgets and keep the one that feels best to you, or if NONE of them is helpful, don't bother. Some folks I know get by very nicely by sticking a Dr. Scholl's corn pad on the flute in the spot the bo-pep goes.

Now, there are more than one type of Bo-pep.
I have the 'Finger Rest' which holds your left knuckle about 1 centimeter away from the flute body. This extends my LH first finger and gives me better finger speed, since my finger isn't flexed (read, cramped!) as much as it would be without the finger rest. There's a sweet spot where your finger is not extended too far nor flexed too much, and ideally you will find a gadget or modification that puts ALL of your fingers in that sweet spot.

Finger-rest:
http://www.amazon.com/Bo-Pep-A13-BP600-Flute-Finger-Rest/dp/B0002F5IIW/ref=pd_cp_MI_1

There is also a 'finger saddle' which for some will make the flute more stable in the hands. Since the LH knuckle is closer to the flute tube, it wouldn't work for me (my finger would still be flexed too much) but for other people it works very well.
Finger Saddle:
http://www.amazon.com/Bo-Pep-A13-BP600-Flute-Finger-Rest/dp/B0002F5IIW/ref=pd_cp_MI_1

My very talented and extremely well-educated flute friend uses a Bo-Pep thumb guide for her right hand.
I get along without one.

I would also look into the Jennifer Cluff pages, Jen has described plenty of modifications.

Personally, I haven't figured out why some people say that the Bo-Pep will mar the flute. My flute is not scratched. But you can put a very thin piece of flexible plastic or cloth material in between the Bo-pep and the flute (the Bo-pep snaps on, so the material will have to be thin) if it is a concern.

<Added>

Oops, answer to 1) would be yes, I use it!


Re: Curious about the Be-bop    15:24 on Thursday, February 11, 2010          

DaveandKateplus1
4

I cut off a small piece of sticky back soft side of velcro for my left hand. It cushions, stays in place and is easy to attach. Not to mention cheap!


Re: Curious about the Be-bop    13:30 on Friday, February 12, 2010          

InstrumentCrazy
(219 points)
Posted by InstrumentCrazy

I just got the finger saddle today and it REALLY HELPED!!!!! I was shocked at how well it worked! I could immediately see a difference!


Re: Curious about the Be-bop    13:46 on Friday, February 12, 2010          

jose_luis
(2369 points)
Posted by jose_luis

You mean the LH index saddle? Is it Bo pep or other?


Re: Curious about the Be-bop    14:03 on Friday, February 12, 2010          

Pyrioni
(437 points)
Posted by Pyrioni

What will be the future flute look like? If people keep adding supports:
http://users.gotsky.com/jimschmidt/flute.htm


Re: Curious about the Be-bop    15:02 on Friday, February 12, 2010          

InstrumentCrazy
(219 points)
Posted by InstrumentCrazy

Yes it's the LH index saddle. And it is Bo-pep! It's great!!!!

<Added>

Sorry if I seem really excited but it's SNOWING here!! And where I live (South Carolina) it hardly ever snows!!!


Re: Curious about the Be-bop    03:24 on Saturday, February 13, 2010          

jose_luis
(2369 points)
Posted by jose_luis

What will be the future flute look like? If people keep adding supports:


There are, have been, and probably will be, new different designs that challenge the time-proven Böehm system. But it does not look probable that any of them will ever replace it, art least for a mechanically actuated instrument. In any case, there are no added supports I can see on the J. Schmidt flute design.

I will probably try the Bo Pep saddle because it is cheap and simple, but first I will stick a piece of soft material, as DaveandKateplus1 kindly suggested and see If I gain in comfort without undesirable side effects.


   








This forum: Older: URG.: Is it possible to modify the trill key on a Yamaha 674?
 Newer: pearl piccolo age