Hi. I am picking up the flute again after a very long hiatus (20+ years). I pulled out of storage my Gemeinhardt 3S, which was purchased new in the mid-1970s from a dealer in NY City. In poking around for various bits of info, I came across this forum, where it seems that most people have a pretty low opinion of Gemeinhardt. This is interesting, because at the time I got this flute, it was considered a good mid-range instrument. (For you youngsters out there, back then the Internet did not exist -- MON DIEU!! -- so basically you took the word of the dealer and your flute teacher.)

I'm wondering... can anyone tell me what the problems are in general with this brand, and why it's usually at the bottom of the "recommended" discussions?

FYI, I have no plans to replace it right away. I'm going to get it tuned up at a shop, and it will be the instrument I use until I get back up to speed -- self teaching through the more basic instructional materials, then finding a teacher -- until I reach the point where I can really appreciate differences in instrument quality. In the meantime, though, I'd be interested in knowing what it is about Gemeinhardts that make the brand fall so low in the opinion threads. And yes, I've read many of the very helpful threads in this forum to get a general idea of why other brands are popular with experienced flute players. But most talk of Gemeinhardts usually begins and ends with analysis like, "DON'T BUY!" "UGH!" "ICKY!"

Thanks in advance!

Gemeinhardt flutes were decent a few decades ago, but they haven't improved since. Other manufacturers, most notably Yamaha, have improved upon their designs. Years ago, Gemeinhardts were decent instruments, but there are better options on the market today.

Gemeinhardt had some problem in the near past and since they changed their manufacturing plant have improved significantly.

I recently had the chance to evaluate a couple 3SB's and the headjoints (one of the big reasons for poor playing reputation) had 2 instruments on spec! Both played very nicely right out of the box. The mechanics are typical of flutes in this category.

So they are working to improve their product it seems. It's just that years of quality issues remain in people's minds...

Joe B



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I did not have time to evaluate the scaling. The other complaint on Gemeinhardt was that for years they did not modernize their scale. So I can not report on that..(yet)

That said, they can be good student or beginner choices, especially since you can get one of their top-end solid silver models used, for about what a used Yahama goes for. I'd rate their "pro" models to be roughly intermediate at best.

Still, this can be a good savings, especially if you don't want to pay $600 for a used Yamaha 300 series because you want a student model with a B foot and/or open holes.(otherwise the 300 series is the same as the 200)

My money, though, is on a used Pearl if you can find one. Their "basic" models are easily twice as good as most other basic student models out there.(same can be said with most of the other higher-end brands, as long as they are made since 2001 or so) Yamaha is also nice, but they honestly charge extra for the name at this point. Still, if you have $300 to spend on a used flute, a 200 series is far better than anything in that price range new.

I don't think you should feel bad at all about your Gemeinhardt. I, too, was shopping for an intermediate flute in 1977, and the ones I played were Armstrong, Gemeinhardt, and DeFord. I ended up with the DeFord and was happy with it. Recently I bought an open-hole silver Armstrong of that vintage and it' plays well, but not better than the Armstrong. I'd like to find a late-70's Gemeinhardt for comparison.

There has been some discussion about Gemeinhardt student models and a change in the headjoint design at some point in the past. I have two student Gemeinhardts here, and one plays like a dream - lots of volume and a very responsive headjoint. The other plays well, but doesn't have the responsiveness of the first. I bet your Gemeinhardt is more like the good one I have since it's older.

As for intonation, I think it's important that the keys are vented (the height they open to) properly. One accessory available today that was not in the 70's is electronic tuners. They can help measure intonation, but be careful not to fixate on it. Use your ear as your guide. One real problem with some flutes is intonation mismatches between low, medium and high registers. I have a jupiter which seems really in tune from low to high registers, but my Amadeus is horribly flat on low notes without headjoint authority to correct it . I think it's a problem with the "focus" of the head joint cut being on the flat side of the intonation for these notes. If your instrument has reasonable intonation between registers and the keys are vented correctly you should be able to listen with your ears and automatically adjust individual notes into proper intonation. The modern scales just make this a little forgiving for the player.

As for intonation, I think it's important that the keys are vented (the height they open to) properly. One accessory available today that was not in the 70's is electronic tuners.

Electronic tuners are not required for setting tone hole vent heights. There are 3 basic heights that are required and they are determined by scaling design. Adjusting intonation on a flute by lowering and raising key heights is a fools' game. That's not how scaling is determined.

You only have to be sure that your venting heights are not too low. There are other ways the flute is more affected by intonation problems that negate subtleties any key height issues affect.

Joe B

The real issue with intonation is as Joe B suggests a matter of scaling (In a proportional sense). This is done in a mathematically designed manner. Key height is just one consideration of that physics aspect of the design. If, on the other hand I were looking at a flute and the key/pad heights were not very consistent, This would put into question whether or not the person responsible for these height variances knew what they were doing.

Although electronic tuners (and other tuning means) have been around since a bit before the 70's ( http://people.usd.edu/~mbanks/CONN14.html ) we can't use tuners for designing each key position or for adjusting even pad height because this implies that someone responsible for flute design / maintenance would have perfect pitch, a great sense of tone variations, a perfect embouchure and that will always play notes throughout the range of the instrument in a consistent and universally accepted "industry standard" manner. This is generally not the situation in the real world.

My take on the Gemeinhardt flutes is that they have not updated the perception of their quality and tone/tuning in the market place. The competition is a bit stiffer since the 1970s and there are many flute companies which are perceived as the latest and the greatest. Some of them may be better and some are probably worse. Changing their design to improve their perception in the marketplace may be of benefit or it may not. It is costly to make changes and doing this all the time may not increase sales. I have a 3SB from the 70's and it was not great for maintaining adjustment but I do know a lot more about caring for my instruments since I used that flute. I have played on one of their higher-end flutes from that time and they were really rather good flutes but they are very rare instruments on the used market.

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BTW: for the original question about using a Gemeinhardt for getting up to speed....go for it. As long as you have your instrument checked over and your instrument is working properly you can get back into fluting pretty well. Best of luck and enjoyment to you.

In my own opinion, the Gemmies have two main problems:
1)scale (precise placement of tone holes, geometry of headjoint)...it will be more difficult to play in tune than a flute with a more updated scale engineering. Jupiter and Yamaha make student flutes with more modern scales.
2)Headjoint embouchure (how responsive the headjoint is and how well you can change the character of the sound) The gemmies that I've played have a pretty easy response, but as Micron mentioned, if you try to play FF, you get fuzzy instead of loud. I had a 3SB made in the late 80's, it 'made' me blow the airstream across, rather than down into, which somehow screwed up pitch.

We had a very good adult flutist in our college-level winds ensemble, she had a Gemmie that she played very well. She was taking lessons and improving a lot (from an already pretty competent level) but had a few pitch issues unless she really, really kept practicing with her tuner. When she bought a Sankyo (pricey, but very very nice), she sounded like she had advanced 'all of a sudden' about 6 to 9 months of studying- pitch and tone were tons better.

In spite of all this, a Gemmie will be a reasonable choice for starting out. But, if it is going to cost you more than $50 or so to put your flute back into working order, I would suggest considering a used, reconditioned Yamaha instead. Plenty of pro players have a Yamaha student model (200 series) flute that they play when they will be outdoors or must take their flutes somewhere that might risk having their flutes damaged or stolen. These flutes can be played to a very sophisticated level.

For more info on the why's and wherefores of appropriate flutes for a serious student, you might look at Jen Cluff's website http://www.jennifercluff.com/blog/2007/01/why-some-flute-brands-and-not-others.html

Even between headjoints, though, there are major differences. I played several Yamahas to try out my son's potential first flute(unsolicited, he decided he liked flute best, go figure). One was much better than the other, despite all being the same model.

There is one major difference, between my old (my first flute) Gemeinhardt and his Yahama. On his I can instantly bounce down to low C from anyplace. On the Gem, it took about a quarter of a second to get that tone to actually come out.(no effort at all for almost any notes vs tons). I confirmed it was the headjoint by placing his Yamaha headjoint in the Gem with a small paper shim. Moving from one octave to the other was also twice as easy.

To be honest, his new Yamaha plays almost as well as my 15 year old 500/600 series Yamaha. But I did have to try out several before I found one that really sang. (my guess is the difference between the student and pro headjoints at Yahama is mostly quality control, because some play like student flutes and some play much better.

Technology has made a tremendous impact upon the entire industry. For those companies that are using it, though. (Gemeinhardt unfortunately does not, so they've been left behind)

I think one of the major advantages of starting with a good Yam student flute is that most teachers won't suggest that you need to upgrade for quite a while longer than you would with a Gemmie.