Hi,

I'm just getting back into playing bass clarinet:

Bundy 1-piece
Selmer C85/120
Rico Royal 2.5
Rovner Lig

Once I'm warmed up I can hit pretty much any note in the clarion, but the one note that I just can't get to speak (unless I approach it step-wise) is the high "C" TR ooo|ooo

I've tried several different mouthpieces (2 different Vandorens, Selmer, Fobes), and a variety of different brand/strength reeds. I've experimented with all different placements of the reed and the lig. The result is almost always the same --- that note doesn't speak with any of those [high end] mouthpieces.

However, if I play using the old [and very stinky] Bundy Signature #3 mouthpiece that came with the clarinet, I can hit that "C" with no problem. The downside is that the clarinet sounds terrible with that mouthpiece.

So it seems like maybe I should get a different mouthpiece, but something tells me that maybe something's wrong with my technique. Or maybe even the clarinet.

I don't have a teacher, and the one I want to study with won't be available for several months. Having a hard time getting my head 'round this situation, so meanwhile I'm looking for advice.

I play the regular clarinet, but I may be able to help (seeing as the only major difference is the bass clarinet being longer and lower, with a somewhat different tone). First, when you try to play the C, does it come out as air? Try playing C without the register key (f), does it sound clear? Blow as much air as you can on a High C, adjusting your mouth and such. Even a squek would be good, because that means that a tone can be produced on that note. But, please, don't take my advice to strongly. I've never even played a bass clarinet... Just using my soprano clarinet advice. :-D

^size isnt the only difference at ALL. but i won't elaborate on that cause its not relevant.

it seems unlikely that it'd be the instrument, such as a pad not closing or something, because lower notes come out, nothing special goes down for that C, and it works with the other mouthpiece. if you have a friend who can play a abss clarinet, see if they can get the note out with the mouthpiece that you can't. this may determine if it's the mouthpiece that could fix it, or your technique.

Thanks for your suggestions guys.

Using the Selmer mouthpiece, I tried playing F and then hitting the register key as suggested. Result? Some interesting sounding squeaks! But if I play throat E, D, or C and hit the register key, the resulting higher notes will speak, though not very quickly (and I'm thinking this is a matter of my lack of technique).

Funny thing is that I can hit altissimo C#, D, D#, E, and so on without much of a problem at all.

Laeta, unfortunately there's no one else I know that I could ask to play the bass per your suggestion. What I might do is give the stinky Bundy mouthpiece (yet another) good rinse and compare my results.

Nearly all of the junior high students in my school district play the 1-piece Selmer horns, as well as the high school marching band kids. I'm pretty familiar with these horns having taught private bass clarinet lessons for a while. The notes from G up to high-C do not speak well. They rely on the voicing technique of the player, especially high-B and -C. Notes above these pop right out, as you have already discovered. You are using AWESOME mouthpieces, so that's not the problem.

The first thing I would do if you were my student is put you on a Vandoren 3 reed. And, if you're biting at all, you won't be able to get these notes. I'd guess that you're already doing some register slur exercises. Try this variation: Low-C, add reg to play high-G, then slur up slowly to C then FREEZE as you release the note, pause for a second, then without changing ANYTHING with your embouchure (especially inside your mouth), try to start the C with just air (no tongue). If you're getting a great high-C after slurring up to it, then the only reason you're having trouble starting on that note is because the shape inside your mouth changes as you start it. This exercise lets you concentrate on NOT changing anything. You must learn to start this note with air before adding the tongue. This is much harder on Bass Clarinet than Bb soprano, especially on your particular horn... but it's possible. I work hard to train all my students who play that horn, and they always get it eventually. If you can't get the High-C this way, do the same exercise on a lower note, like B or A first and work up to C.

One more exercise that works for some of my students... With Thumb-Register, you can make basically 3 sounds. A low grunting sound, a High-C, and a squeak (actually just a higher harmonic). Master playing a grunt steadily, and master the squeak to where you can go between them at will just by varying your air column and mouth shape (inside). Once you can do that (just a few minutes of practice), then try to make a sound in between the grunt and the squeak. This will be your high-C. This exercise lets you experiment with how your air and mouth affect the horn and hopefully will lead you to the combination of air and mouth that plays a high-C. Remember to start using just air, no tongue. Add the tongue to the start when you are 100% perfect starting with air. Then you'll need to do a little more experimenting....

Let me know if you have any questions. Sorry for the long-winded response!

Hump, thanks SO much for taking time to provide such an informative and detailed reply. I'm going to try what you suggested starting with my practice this evening!

BTW, is that a contra pictured in your avatar?

Cheers!

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P.S. I don't have a Vandoren #3, but I have a Rico Royal #3 laying around here somewhere. I've also got a Legere 2.5 which feels like a 12.5 LOL!. In any case, I'll use the stiffer Rico Royal while I try your exercise.

No problem, anything to help us low clarinet players! Yep, that's my personal Leblanc Low-C BBb contrabass in the picture. With a Fobes San Fran mouthpiece, it plays like a champ!

Ah! Contra, very cool! One day I hope to own one, but as I'm just getting my feet wet again on clarinet/bass clarinet (last time I played was 30 years ago) I thought I'd get started on bass and work my way down LOL!

Thanks again.

Hump,

So I tried out your suggestions (substituting a plebian Rico #3 since I don't have a Vandoren) and was able to play and hear everything you described! I'm sure it's going to take a lot of practice to get the technique down. And as you suggested, maybe the horn itself isn't the best for trying to accomplish this. But I'm going to give it my best shot in the meantime.

BTW, I don't own all of those mouthpieces I listed in my initial post. I took wwbc up on their mouthpiece trial/exchange program and had them send me a Fobes and two Vandorens (a B40 and a B45). There was something about the Fobes that I just wasn't crazy about. Can't explain it... Of the Vandorens, the B40 gave me a "woody" chalumeau sound that I was hoping this clarinet would be capable of producing. But the upper clarion notes just wouldn't speak with that m/piece, whereas the beat-up Bundy Signature #3 that came with the clarinet let me achieve them with relative ease (key word is "relative" LOL).

I reluctantly sent back the B40 with the others and had them send me the Selmer C85/120. I'm not totally in love with the sound of this mouthpiece, but it feels "secure" so I decided to buy it.

Again, many thanks!

I glad my post makes sense to you! The B44 is my favorite Vandoren mouthpiece. My students play on this or C*'s only

Hi Hump,

I'd like to tap your brain one more time if I may...

In a previous post, you wrote, "The notes from G up to high-C do not speak well. They rely on the voicing technique of the player, especially high-B and -C."

Is it fair to infer, then, that playing on a more intermediate-grade instrument would require less work to produce these notes? If so, I'll consider trading up, particularly to something with an automatic double register key. (FWIW, I'm totally into practicing to get my technique down, but if instrument itself is the problem I'd rather not work so hard to overcome the instrument's limitations).

The other option I've been wondering about is whether I could have a woodwind tech do a physical modification on the bass (changing diameter/placement of the register tube, or something along those lines) that might help these notes speak more freely. Or would I simply be better off getting myself a more intermediate-grade bass?

Good question. You are correct in thinking that a better horn will make those notes much easier. I think a lot of the problem comes from the tone holes not being undercut like the more expensive models, but I don't know about adjusting the register vent on these horns. I know people who've done just that on expensive Buffets with great success but not for the same reason, so maybe it's worth investigating, or maybe not, dunno. I heard that Mr. Charles Bay played a Bundy plastic contra alto whose tone holes he undercut himself.

As far as intermediate horns go, I think the Buffet 1180 is good. They call it their "student model", but it does not suffer from this problem. The upper register is really nice. It does have its own problems with super-tall 12ths at the long end, but the horn sounds good on most all of the notes. I don't like wooden Leblancs at all, but some people do. Maybe you can find a Selmer Paris or Buffet 1180 or 1183... or 1193(low-C).

Good luck!

Thank you again Hump!!! I really appreciate your replies, they've been VERY helpful! BTW, are you a member of the Clarinet BB at woodwind.org? Respond (if you want to) off-forum (if you want to).

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P.S. what did you mean when you said "super tall twelfths"?

i dont think it's the instrument, it takes practice, and not playignt the instrument for more than a week does nothing to help it,

KEEP PRACTICING!

oh sorry... tall twelfths means the distance between 2 notes using the same fingering with and without the register key open is too big. for example, if low-E is flat and 3rd-line B is really sharp, then that "12th" is considered "tall". It's a natural thing on clarinet, especially bass. some horns are better than others in this regard!