Buffet has always being the lead maker in 60th and 70th and 80ths and even longer....but now with all the uprising new models from other companies(Leblanc,Selmer and Yamaha).would you still think that buffet have the best clarinet that offers you to buy and play?(e.g intonation wise,keyworks,wood quality,eveness of tone,design,abd blar blar blar~)

Buffet is the easiest to obtain in most parts of the US, and is fine for the average progressing player, but in my opinion as well as many others, unless you get one of the top end Buffets and have it adjusted by a well known tech. , it`s not worth having a Buffet. The intonation on most "professional" models of Buffet (R13 and some of the R13 family) is horrible, the keywork is for the most part outdated and clumsy, the quality of wood is horrible (look at the grain of any given new R13), and the tone isn`t really a factor because truly whatever clarinet you buy you will go as close to "your idea of a good tone" in a matter of time. The new Tosca is finally some improvement for the Buffet family (largely borrowing from Leblanc in my opinion with it`s new tenon rings, new keywork design, rondes bombes pad cup style, and it`s new logo reminds me of something Leblanc would do).

There`s no question Buffet makes good clarinets, but you really have to search to find a good one, and I just think Leblanc and Selmer right now have better instruments to offer (if not better, easier to find and often times cheaper).

Bradley

Btw- if you want to find an intune, even clarinet go try a Leblanc Concerto II or Opus II, or even a Selmer Signature (which was made to be tuned to 440 perfectly, so has less chance of being sharp than other top models, but I find isn`t as even as a Leblanc artist model)

Bradley

I find the thread already quite amuzing. Buffet was very fortunate back in the day with great advertising. Who was one of the chief individuals who had Buffet`s brought from France? Bonade. Is there any wonder why so many of his students played on them!?! So many people play on Buffet`s because so many people are from the Bonade line in some capacity. So those individuals have all come to play Buffet. As far as evenness, I would say that for a factory made, French clarinet, yes Buffet is still the best overall. As far as the new Tosca, I cannot comment as I have never played one. However some of the details the poster before made are so insignificant that it is not worth arguing about. Cup style? That is very insignificant. As for tenon rings, the Prestige R-13 and if I am correct RC Prestige both have tenon rings. If I had to choose a clarinet, it would certainly be a handmade clarinet. Most factory made clarinets are trash. They fall into the hands of amateurs who try and justify why they play on what they play. No offense to most LeBlanc people I have met, but so many of them try and justify why LeBlanc is so much better. Buffet people are like that, but to a lesser degree, typically just defending themselves from Buffet haters. Deep down, if a clarinet is in good condition and is not trash, a good player should be able to pick it up and play on it. I agree with the above poster who said that someone will get their own sound eventually.

Stefan and Bradley are both absolutely right. I hate the Buffet. I play on a 1940s Selmer Signet and it`s the bestttt! I find Buffets to be very inmanipulatable--not a word but you understand what I`m trying to say. With any Buffet, I find it nearly impossible to alter the tone or brightness or anything. In my area, all the *good* clarinetists play on Buffets and I think they`re ridiculous. I think Buffets were made for all the *smart*, *intelligent* players with coordinated fingers who are too lazy to improve their tones by practice and learning. It`s absolutely absurd. I have been playing this Selmer since 6th grade, and when I started out, I had a horrible tone and now I think, of course no one actually knows what the "perfect" tone is, but now I think I have like one of the best tones...ever. Nah, I`m just joking. But it`s pretty good. But my point is, this Selmer is an asset because I`ve had no lessons, it`s basically been a help to me because (imagine if clarinets could talk) a Buffet would be like "oh, hello beginner, let`s sound beautiful!", but the Selmer`s like "oh, hey, beginner, let`s sound horrible, but make you work to achieve a great tone so you can see just how much more ingenius I am than those Buffets." So in conclusion, what I hate about the Buffets the most is that they`re easy instruments on which to get a quality tone.

The above poster makes very little sense to me, but ok- to each his/her own.

I was talking about appearance with the Tosca because it is very Leblanc-like in that respect.

You`ve got to be kidding when it comes to Buffets being the most even. Most Buffet followers don`t give any other brand the time of day, and I bet you have not actually tried new Leblancs or Selmers at the same time as these "even" Buffets you talk about. And even if you could find an even Buffet, it would be after trying about 50 or so as I have found the odds of finding a good Buffet to be around that number (literally).

If you want to say all of that, then fine but my opinion is that Buffet is not the best anymore. You can`t however say the average professional Buffet is more even in tone colours and intonation from note to note than Leblanc, because it`s simply not true.

Since these brands are such trash to you anyway, which handmade brand would you buy, if not already purchased, and what are YOUR reasons for liking a clarinet?

Bradley

Bradley, I find it odd that you accuse me of not trying these `great` instruments. Considering how we have never met, accusations of that nature are uncalled for. Considering how you have tried scores of Buffets, I find it odd that someone would go out and try a hundred or so instruments since you have made such a literal statement. Why try a hundred? If it is good, it is good. If not, then it isnt. Let me just say that I have tried a number of clarinets that were French made. LeBlanc clarinets IMHO do not have enough overtones to produce the rich sound that I am looking for. I find the keywork quite cheap. Do I find the keywork of Buffet to be equally as cheap? Yes! What type of handmade clarinet would I choose? Probably ANYTHING from Neustast, Germany. If you do not know who makes clarinet in this Nurnberg area, go look it up. If you want to know what I look for in a clarinet, go look up these clarinet makers and you will find out.

hmm.....i think buffet is great...but maybe its the drop of QC check that coz most of its instruments to be not that good many more(due to mass production and great demand).

if you really want good buffet clarinet you have to go to their factory in france and choose(they do keep their tip top condition clarinet in their factory for pple to choose..but more expensive.)and the other thing which you all mention is that the clarinet makers of the company are mainly young .thats rite.becoz old experts have retired or join to other big companies from buffet(rumours).and clarinet is not really all machine made.some part needs experts to touch up.

buffet have also stop improving their models for a long time since the creation of elite(now come up with tosca which that sayid they took 3 long years to design)
i have tried tosca.its really a great instrument.the design is really a great improvement from its previous model that you won;t find in any other clarinets.the register key is designed curve towards your thumb,and a much more natural and quiet keyworks.

but any other companies like leblanc and selmer have good model too.like opus and selmer signature(you can`t deny that rite)to improve a clarinet,you need the local best model,revise it wat are the flaws and make a model which is better then wat the other companies have.(isn`t this wat all clarinet makers are doing now?)you copy me and i copy you to outstand you.(japanese is an expert in this..haha...

but in the end not all instruments are identical.i`m helping music companies in my area to try out all their newly imported clarinets.mainly buffet model.but not all are good.3 R13 can have different condition but of coz i have tried very good ones.my task is to eliminated the (bad)ones.(have sent alot back..i even have some batch which the barrel ring can be taken out..haha)other companies have these problems but not as problematic as buffet.

so its up to us to try all good and tip top clarinets from every brands find which one that suits our concept best.
it is fun and you will really gain experinence of how to define whether this particular clarinet itself is good or bad but not the model itself...

ps.i got poor english...hope you all understand wat i said..haha..


CHEerS~

Buffet is defin great on my list. Ive been using the E11, and its been serving me well.

Stefan, I notice you did not deny the part about the Leblancs being more intune and even than Buffets, but w/e.
I`ve heard of people arguing what you said about the overtones, but never say that a Buffet is more even and intune.

I tried so many because when I got my last clarinet I had time to shop around, and there are many, many Buffets in the stores where I live (which is also probably true for almost everyone).

The tenon rings I refer to are not the CAPS which are on the end of the tenon but the rings which are at where the outer layer of wood meets when two joints are put together.

Funny that you would go and tell me about not knowing each other and therefore not being able to accuse each other of anything. One of my teachers is german, so don`t try to sound smart by thinking I`d have to figure out stuff like that. it`s really a waste of time.

Bradley

Sorry Bradley. I suppose that I overlook some aspects of one of your prior posts. I suppose that I should have commented on the evenness and intonation of the Buffets v. LeBlanc. To me, the Prestige is Buffet`s best clarinet, albeit I have not tried the new Tosca. I hope that this is not a marketing ploy as was Vandoren`s latest experiement(56s). As far as intonation, I would imagine that any commercially made instrument will require modification outside of the factory to make it pro worthy. This includes LeBlancs. Lest ye not forget too that the most important part of intonation lies with the player, not the instrument. What if you find yourself needing to blend and play outside of your comfort zone. You cannot say to your collegues, oh i am sorry, but my instrument is very close to intune. This would not only make you the laughing stock of your ensemble, but looking at as being incompetant! I have played the recent designs of LeBlanc. While I think they are ok, I still firmly believe that Buffet and its Prestige still is a better instrument. Of course you have to make modifications to it. If I play one, I still have to modify the barrel. I am sure LeBlanc instruments need to be modified in the same way. There is an article by Jochen Seggelke out there that is titled Clarinet Playing in Germany. Might be a good read, especially the section dealing with factory made clarinets and handmade clarinets.

I am not talking about overall intonation. That changes daily. I am talking about the intonation changing from note to note. While it is up to the player to adjust to every environment, and often the same environment day to day- Leblancs do not have as much difference note to note through their scale. The only clarinet I`ve ever had to not adjust the barrel to is a Selmer Signature, but even my Leblanc Concerto II is sometimes sharp when I set up.

I can get the same tone on any clarinet more or less as far as my "ideal" tone goes, given I change my mouthpiece/reed/ligature setup to match the clarinet. My tone on my Concerto II is as rich if not richer than my tone on my old R13(and this was the best of about 20 I tried).

The only problem I have with tone is when a clarinet is too resistant and stuffy- like when I play Signature pairs, especially in ensemble settings trying to blend I find the upper clarion too stuffy and covered.

If adjusted properly, I have found Leblancs to be the best clarinets for me- I`m not trying to say this will be true for everyone. What I do have a problem with is poor quality control and manufacturing defects on newer Buffets.

Bradley

P.S. Just incase you believe in horns being "blown out" in a few years, when I said old R13 I meant my new R13 I bought a year ago that is no longer my primary instrument.

I very much believe in clarinets eventually `blowing out.` They will eventually lose their ability to vibrate correctly, and will lose resitance.

Are you serious? They "blow out"? How much time do you think my Selmer has before it blows out!? It`s about...50-something years old...I don`t know how old that thing is. But it`s old. And it doesn`t sound like it`s going to blow out any time soon, though it is cracking.

Well...most professionals I know will have to change every 3-7 years depending on how good the clarinet is. But it all depends how good the wood is. And how it has been played. Too many variables, but by 50 years old I would say it might be past its prime.