stuck bell :(
stuck bell :(
03:38 on Thursday, December 30, 2004
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(twisty feet)
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Hi ya`all,
I just started learning to play the clarinet. I got a simba from ebay a few months ago and it works ok. WEll, for christmas, santa delivered an e11.
I have a few questions. I was playing 1.5 reeds on a selmer goldentone mp. that was ok. At least I could get sounds out of it. When I got the e11 though, I found that the 1.5`s didn`t work too well and a better reed was a vandoren 2.5 that I bought to try out. Does the body (response, accuracy, resonance) affect the type of reed in any way?
Also, the bell on my instrument is stuck. It got stuck the first time, but I was able to pull it off. NOw I`m afraid of bending the keys or cracking the wood. any advice? I did use cork grease.
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Re: stuck bell :(
12:08 on Thursday, December 30, 2004
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(Kate)
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Yes, the instrument and mouth piece you play on affect the strength of reed that you use. A harder reed is always better, if you can play on it. It will produce a better tone.
Buffet clarinets often stick together. Try to cool the wood (hold it against cool metal or something that`s cool, briefly, but don`t let it get wet), then pull it apart. After that, don`t push the bell all the way on until you can get it looked at by a repairman and have the wood cut down.
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Re: stuck bell :(
16:50 on Thursday, December 30, 2004
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(Andy)
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Many times the mouthpiece is intended for a certain strength reed. For instance, I play on a V12 size 4 reed, but it`s probably no harder to play on than yours with the 2 1/2. It`s just the way the mouthpiece is designed. Most beginner mouthpieces will take a soft reed so that the player will be able to get something resembling a sound out of it. An E11 is a step-up instrument, so it comes with a step-up mouthpiece. A 2 1/2 is probably a good size for it, but you may want to try some different strength reeds (2, 3, maybe 3 1/2), just to see what feels and sounds best. A stronger reed often will give a better sound, but only if it`s right for the mouthpiece, so it just takes some experimentation.
As for your stuck bell, hold both hands close together with both palms facing down. One on the bell, and one at the bottom of the 2nd joint. Then, carefully twist. If you feel any of the metal bars starting to move, stop and set your hands somewhere else. Keep this up and you`ll find a place to hold it that doesn`t move the bars at all. The wood is fairly strong, so unless it`s really really stuck (really), your chances of cracking it are pretty slim.
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Re: stuck bell :(
23:16 on Thursday, December 30, 2004
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(John)
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"An E11 is a step-up instrument, so it comes with a step-up mouthpiece"
Actually all the buffet line instruments come with mouthpieces that are complete junk. I highly recommend getting a new mouthpiece. A decent mouthpiece on any vito or bundy will sound better than the buffet mouthpiece on an E11.
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Re: stuck bell :(
17:27 on Friday, December 31, 2004
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(Andy)
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One of the best clarinet players I know purchased an R13 and uses the stock mouthpiece that came with it. His sound is pretty good, so there`s got to be some good points to the Buffet mouthpiece. It`s really all about what works for you. My mouthpiece is fairly closed but with a fairly open chamber. The Buffets are fairly open with a more moderate chamber. Since the mouthpiece comes with the instrument, it`s silly just to disregard it completely without trying it.
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Re: stuck bell :(
19:01 on Friday, December 31, 2004
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(John)
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Buffet makes clarinets, not mouthpieces. The stock mouthpieces are made of molded plastic and are of an incredibly poor quality. The facing is roughly done, and very little is done to the mouthpiece after it is molded and corked. That being said, not only do the huge majority of them play badly, you can pretty much forget about consistency from mouthpiece to mouthpiece.
It`s true that some players may find a Buffet stock mouthpiece that works for them, such as your friend, but with their inconsistency and quality, this is a rare occurence and also says nothing about the entire line of mouthpieces. Although they may be playable with some refacing work done, you can find a much better student line mouthpiece (and of a higher quality material) for the same price.
Also, Buffet ships the same mouthpiece on their student and proffesional instruments (or, at least, of the same quality), so that puts your "intermediate level mouthpiece" point to moot. If it were up to me, Buffet clarinets would not come with a mouthpiece at all, because of clarinetists who are unaware of this.
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Re: stuck bell :(
21:03 on Friday, December 31, 2004
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(Jules)
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For a beginner mouthpieces really isn`t the real issue since better mouthpiece will only produce a better tone if the player knows how to take advantage of it and can listen. Sometimes the "better sound" is very individual. Some like the sound round and humming, others like it sharp and singing. Different reeds, different mouthpieces and so helps producing different kind of sounds but what`s best for one might not be best for you.
It`s like with the second clarinet in my orchestra. He plays on an vandoren mouthpiece with plastic reeds and a very strange ligature that looks very clumsy. His sound is sharp and I don`t like it at all. It doesn`t suite classical music and it doesn`t suite jazz still he thinks it`s the best sound ever nagging on me `cause I`m playing on wooden reeds and the mouthpiece that came with my first clarinet (a jupiter) that mouthpiece together with an ordinary ligiature and vandoren reeds give the perfect round, clear clarinet sound that I like and he detests.
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Re: stuck bell :(
01:30 on Saturday, January 1, 2005
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(John)
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Jules, I disagree. Mouthpieces are more important than nearly any other hardware, and it is certainly important for a beginner to get a good quality mouthpiece! Not only do they affect (effect?) the tone, they also determine response, resistance, etc. There`s no point in buying someone an expensive instrument if they`re playing on a cruddy mouthpiece. The problem with beginners is that they don`t know any better. Have a teacher go with them to pick out a mouthpiece and I garantee they will play better in a matter of days.
Sure, "sound" varies as do opinions, but I imagine there is a general consensus of what sounds good and what doesn`t. I don`t see many people critisizing Ricardo Morales` tone, after all!
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Re: stuck bell :(
13:15 on Saturday, January 1, 2005
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(twisty feet)
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wow, thanks for all the responses.
I ended up taking it to a repair guy who shaved down something or other and adjusted the keys to boot.
After a few weeks (and definitely after I`ve recouped from my christmas debauchery) I`ll head down with my mentor and play with mouthpieces and ligature combos.
I still have to develop better technique too.
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Re: stuck bell :(
13:34 on Saturday, January 1, 2005
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(Jules)
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John, yes a crappy mouthpiece will make playing a lot harder and may even result in bad biting habits and so on but most "beginners" mouthpieces like those that come with the Yamaha isn`t really that bad. Yes, the mouthpiece will affect the sound of a good clarinet. But I still think the reed is the real key and how you play your mouthpiece. Different mouthpieces require different kinds of playing techniques to sound their best. If you`re used to an open mouthpiece there will be sound problems if you change to a closed one and vice versa. It`s always a good idea to try out different ones but it isn`t always the most expensive professional mouthpiece really is the best for you and the sound you like.
I buy reeds in boxes of ten and out of those boxes ther`s usually only two or three that I`m content with and play with joy. The rest often requires some work and then don`t make it to be concert reeds so you might understand I`m very consious when it comes to my tone and what makes it sound the best.
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Re: stuck bell :(
14:18 on Saturday, January 1, 2005
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(John)
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I don`t think our opinions are really that different. When I`m critisizing mouthpieces, I`m saying that beginners should not play on the bad quality stock mouthpieces which will, as you say, develop bad habits and hamper player ability. Reeds are more important than mouthpieces in the overall playing of the clarinet, but I think they are basically a given! Either way, it`s easier for a beginner to get a better mouthpiece than to teach him to work on reeds. Different mouthpieces don`t neccesarily need different technique, they are based on preference, setting, and reed strengths.
A beginner on a vito and a clark fobes` debut will almost definetely do better than one on a R13 with the stock. I`m not saying that the most expensive will neccesarily be the best, but we have to rule out what is obviously not going to work (99% of stock mouthpieces).
BTW- The Yamaha line mouthpieces are very good, as you said; they are quite excellent. However, they are the exception, most stock mouthpieces are complete crap.
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Re: stuck bell :(
17:32 on Saturday, January 1, 2005
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(Jules)
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I agree with you, John, that it`s much easier to buy a new mouthpice to improve sound quickly then to learn how to work reeds. But on the other hand how many problems and stupid questions regarding sound wouldn`t be avoided and how much money wouldn`t be saved if beginner students learnt that most problems with squeeking and mute tones can be blamed on bad reeds?
I know a girl who was always flat and whose tone was without exeption muffled like if someone corked her clarinet with clay. She asked out tutor what the problem was. It was obvious, guess what?
She was playing on a too hard reed that she hadn`t changed for I don`t know when. When she then changed the reed she was amazed how much it did and did learn to listen to the reeds before playing them for band rehersals or concerts.
Isn`t it strange that such things can happen, that people can`t connect good sound with the former reed and bad sound with the new one?
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Re: stuck bell :(
15:20 on Wednesday, January 5, 2005
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(bclarsax)
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I had that happen once and just had to gently twist it off.
As for the reed thing...mouthpiece and material the instrument is made of effects the strenghth you need.
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Re: stuck bell :(
23:23 on Wednesday, January 5, 2005
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(John)
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The instrument material should not effect reed strengths at all
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