I`ve recently taken up oboe, I`m an adult beginner (after many years of other wind instruments, 10+ on trumpet & 2 of tenor sax). it`s fairly easy going so far (getting a nice tone & fingers where they are supposed to go) - except when it comes to reed/ instrument matching. I`ve tried one of every common name reed I can find localy caried (rico, la voz, dunkel, chartier, marlin lesher, jones etc.)

the leshers were the most comfortable to play on (M or MS - they seem about the same strength to me) - however with all of these I tend to play fairly sharp unless I`m on the very tip of the reed - which sounds muffled - if I play at a more comfortable location I`ll usually wind up about 15c sharp in a few pockets - but if I monkey with the embrochure more than just a little & take a reed that soaked for 20-30 minutes & let it dry for 5 minutes (my guess is that the reed takes all the H2O it can & asumes it`s most stable shape & the drying sets the shape & firms it back up), I can keep the pitch within 4c +/- for the first 2 octaves - however this is uncomfortable (maybe this is normal?). The tuning also seems to really go sharp @ louder dynamics - to between 25 & 35c sharp - but this extreme only between Bn2 & F2. Odd thing is, in one sitting this will come & go. I`m figuring some of the tuning issues are becase I`m at the mercy of store bought reeds - not ones designed for *this* oboe & would like to start making my own.

Anyway, I`m mechanicly inclined & have the Jay Light book - have seen a number of websites that do the whole step by step & feel that I could make my own - but don`t know what brands would be ones to avoid/ brands good for starting with tubes/cane/tip opening etc. I`m inclined to wider tip as I`ve read that this or a longer reed can make the reed play flatter - however I`d like opinons on actual experience you guys might have had.

I have contact with a "local" oboe teacher but because of distance for recuring lessons she`s inquiring amongst some of her college students that are teaching to find someone closer & it may be a few weeks before I get a teacher lined up.

My oboe is a vintage Rigoutat (about 56 years old, made circa 1945-48, I emailed the company to find out a more precice age than the general "1960s" the seller was advertizing - I suspected it was older because of the serial - and P.R. joked that they can`t put a chemical in them that breaks the oboes down after 40 years) when we play tested this against a Renard 333 it won hands down even with the playing sharp (it`s not just me - the oboe teacher too) - the tone was far superior & even though the renard had just been factory serviced - there was keywork issues - on top of the French vs. American bore design.

If you would prefer to contact me off-forum you can reach me through my website: http://samantha.carrotware.com


Thanks for any advice you guys

This likely won`t help you much, but my daughter is also having a hard time finding a reed that works for her.

I asked her oboe teacher (who is the principal player of our local symphony and who makes reeds) about making reeds and she told me it`s very expensive to start - the equipment costs a fortune. It takes a long time to get good at it - she`s been making reeds for 2-3 years and figures she`s starting to get the hang of it. She also said if I was seriously intereted I should join a reed making group and slowly start learning how - she said it`s next to impossible to learn from a book.

Now having said all that - you might still want to go ahead - but I`d seriously consider the advice about joining a reed making group to at least see what`s all involved before going out on your own.

I know that if I get a gouger & shaper & such It would be very expensive - but I would be using pre-shaped cane like what MMI sells. The tool pieces that have been recomended would only be about $100 with some starter staples & cane. I just don`t have any recomendation on the brand of staples or the tip shaped cane I might ought to try - so I`ve been groping in the dark there. I`ve already had to re-tie some reeds that played way too sharp and that let me lengthen the reed 2-3mm and that sorta worked for the pitch - with nothing other than some reed thread & painter`s masking tape - scraping the back of the reed with a utility knife also sorta worked on bringing the pitch down. I don`t have access to a reed group, however if anyone is in the Nashville/Hermitage area, lemme know.

Have you checked with the local University(s)? They might have some information for you too.

The previous poster is right; making reeds, regardless of whether or not you gouge and shape your own, is a very expensive learning proposition. Sure, the tools may cost you about $100 to start with--but a knife in a kit of that price will wear out very quickly, meaning in the end, you`ll spend about $200 on mechanical materials.

Even worse, there`s also an old oboist saying that "You have to make a laundry basket full of reeds before you learn to make good ones." You`ll go through tons of cane, yards of thread, and multiple staples before you hit on the "perfect reed". Most players I know tell me it took them at least a year to learn how to make a good reed, and they say at least 1/3 the reeds they make are duds. In other words, you might bring the cost of "making" each reed down to $5 apiece, but if only one in three of them is good, each reed is really costing you at least $15 after the wasted supplies. And for that kind of money, you could be buying a store-bought!

Most professionals didn`t even bother to learn until they reached conservatory or a master`s program, where they were required to do so. Reed-making is taught at high school band camps and such, but it`s hardly a comprehensive course. And it`s true--learning from a book is nearly impossible.

I`m not saying this to be snotty, but out of my own experience in asking literally dozens of oboists about their reed habits--in my own quest to figure out whether or not I should learn to make reeds! My oboe professor gave me very sound advice: stay clear of store-boughts like Leshers and Gowers and Emeralds, but unless you`re playing more than three hours a day, you should buy somebody else`s handmade reeds and save the time and effort. As he puts it, "Wouldn`t you rather be playing your oboe than wasting that time making reeds? It`s not exactly something you can do in front of the TV. Pay the extra bucks for someone else to do it."

Ask your private teacher for their recommendations of good makers, or try the ones below. They all deal through the mail and are highly reputable. They all sell reeds not available in music stores that are handmade by professionals.

www.oboeworks.com (I love the Y and Z series from their makers)
www.hodgeproductsinc.com
www.charlesmusic.com
www.nielsen-woodwinds.com
www.stuart-dunkel.com
oboereeds.safeshopper.com
www.rkmoboe.com
www.forrestsmusic.com

While there is very little I can add in the way of reeds, I think you should try to solve your tendency for playing sharp before embarking on reeds-the proverbial cart before the horse.
A reed that you make on your own may not keep you from playing sharp,and can intensify the problem.

Try to keep your jaw `open`, as though you are saying AH or OH. Also try to avoid the "crocodile bit" embouchure. That is a very tight, almost clamp-like embouchure. Aim for an embouchure that has the corners pulled tightly towards the center, if you try this, your jaw will automatically drop down as your lips pull themselves into a kind of pucker. You`ll also notice in doing this, your lips are in front of your teeth and not wrapped around under your teeth. You will also notice that your chin has probably gone flat; that is exactly what you want to happen.

Experiment with opening up your jaw, and bringing the corners of your embouchure towards the center and see if that helps any.

the whole sharp thing cleared up last night - it`s now playing in tune or slightly flat (mainly F#2 & G2) - I think it finaly equalized to the weather here - that and some TLC that would probably freak you guys out over.

The only reeds that it will play in tune with is the leshers or the one la voz that I manipulated the heck out of I tried two charles reeds but they had a 1/2 inch tip that I cliped & retied to get it back to 70mm so that it wasn`t too soft & clamp-offey from the airstream like it started out - now they play OK.

I took the suggestion of the oboe teacher & got some measons & they play about 40c flat (more air or tighter embrochure just closes them off oddly) & are about 2-3mm open, and don`t crow anywhere near B or C. She also thought that the leshers & jones were probably fine (she giggled at the rico - which normally I won`t touch for sax or clarinet - vandoreen all the way! - my hubby will when the weather changes - but only the jazz selects - so I thought it couldn`t hurt) - but that her students found that of the store bought reeds they got the most consistency from the measons - however every oboe has its own tendencies. She recomended I get the Light book, Sprenkle book, and a "student reed making kit" - unfortunatly no advice on exactly who`s kit & she`d ask around some of her college students/collegues to see if they would take an adult student. The leshers all crow about B-C which is probably why they play more in tune than the other reeds I`ve tried.


As a software engineer & elizabethan costumer I`m very familiar with investing a lot of time money & effort & not having much to show for it I do both things because sometimes it`s fun to try things & the satisfaction of doing it when finished. However my thought is that at least I`ll eventually have my own souce in case the "factory" I like changes to something I don`t like or worse - stops.

Probably will check out some of those other reed makers (again) - however most of the sites listed don`t have much in the way of how to pick the right one for you - the nielson site & oboe works seems to have a guide - but not the others - just a general student or pro & strengths - however I`m assuming that like all reed brands one brand`s MS might be an S or an M depending on their scale. Acording to a number of sources I`ve read you ought to skip "inferior" and just get the pro grade (if price is not out of hand).

So who has what fav & what are it`s qualities that you`ve observed?

I would suggest starting off with:
1. Double Hollow Ground Knife
2. Large Cutting Block
3. Mandrel
4. Maybe carrying case
5. A few plaques(like 3-5 easily loosable)
6. 6-8 tubes or staples (47 mm AK Loree)
7. Indian Stone
8. FF Silk string
9. Beesewax
10. Ruler and Nail File

All this stuff should just be a little bit over $100 from Midwest Musical Imports (MMI)- I would look into that. This stuff can get expenseive but in the end if you are thinking seriously about the oboe it is really nice to have your own designated reeds for the oboe.

That`s really interesting bout the 56 year old Rigoutat oboe. I would think the oboe would`ve been blown out by then at least it is broken.........

If you need help or anything (advice) on buying supplies feel free to e-mail me.

Oops forgot to tell you cane to order:
Continued......

Just ask Midwest to send you their PRACTICE CANE (this cane is really good sometimes and it is good practice also sometimes you can make a pretty good reed out of it)

ALWAYS ASK FOR YOUR CANE TO BE SHAPED AND GOUGED- because you don`t want to buy a shaper at the beginning of learning how to reed make.

thanks for the info - some of it I had sorta figured out from the kits that most stores are offering - the cane info is good - def. didn`t know that Is nylon thread just as good, or do you find that silk is more durable/just works better?

I`ve got about 4 good reeds out of all that I`ve gotten - the leshers have been the best as far as least amount of touch up or tuning issues (or just plain making a sound!) - however some of them even have issues.

I`ve ordered some handmade from some of the DR specialists to try for better reference point - some have been better than others, and some I may just not be quite ready for this early with oboe. Some of the reeds I`ve gotten are wacky - they play fine in the lower octave, but are muffled in the upper (and flat) some are just plain flat, some have been sharp/shril, and then the 4 that are nicely in tune.

The oboe teacher was a bit shocked with the good condition when we were working with the assumption that it was 40 - we figured that it may not have been played all that much. When I first called the oboe teacher and told her what I was going to have on approval, she said with the age alone she`d go with the 333, however when we played them, the Rigoutat had a much nicer tone & at the time though it was playing sharp, it was over a few notes & mechanicly sound. She also said that it had a bore that felt close to her Loreé & that if I upgrade later I`d be more familiar with the way a French bore feels rather than have to change a lot of breath stuff to go from an American to French bore. Placing the two next to each other you could see that the 333 had a larger diameter (at least from the outside & at the ends of the joints).

At the time we suspected some tuning could be some historic tuning like a different A standard - or just that the reeds we had weren`t designed for it - she has a modern Loreé, I just had an assortment of store-bought. The other suspicion was that it was way dried out & needed rehydration, started with a damp sponge in the case. The next step was that it`s gotten it`s organic oil rubdown (got ideas from http://www.naylors-woodwind-repair.com/GrenadillaWood.htm however substituted grapeseed for almond, but still laced with vitamin E - these oils have similar properties but without allergin issues - would hate to have a repair person or teacher go into anaphalephtic shock from handling it) every few days for the last month it`s tuning seems to have shifted to be close to where it ought to be (we hope it`s settled down, with the good reeds the turner usually has the same pitch range from day to day now).

The oil has also remedied the bore changing color as well - after only 10-15 minutes any saliva that got on the surface turned it very light, would notice it when running the swab through, now the oil has sealed the wood a bit so it doesn`t change color. Over time this could cause damage - even with regular swabbing. I`m still getting some color change around the thumb rest spots on both joints, it`s kinda pretty - it turns dark purple where my thumbs rest. The tone quality really improved after the first week of rubdowns - however the tuning just sorta shifted all of a sudden last week - it may have been that the weather here got similar to what it`s like where the shop it came from is so it was equalized with the weather.

I was a little surprised to learn it was 50+ (the case said Ch. Rigoutat, so I knew it had to be quite old since he was the founder & retired well before 1960), the wood doesn`t look any worse than our 25yr buffet clarinet. My husband says that if I ever get another oboe I need to keep this one because it`s sorta historical - since it is from the first Rigoutat series right after WWII. Having an oboe "live" for a really long time is not unheard of however. I have recently read an article about one pro player (Leon Goossens) that only ever had 1 oboe, from the time he was 10 and that oboe was over 60 years old at the time of the story being written & the reed well was so worn from all the times the reeds were inserted, it needed extra bulk on the corks on the staples.

My husband has a 70+ year old soprano sax (he really only uses this sax classical playing, he normally plays tenor sax, semi-pro), every time he tunes it he has to push in the mpc farther than newer saxes he`s tried, we`ve looked into this - and aparently when it was made the standard was like A-437, so if you put the mpc on to the usual point it`s pretty flat.

We`re suspecting that with some of the interviews on Nora Post about Rigoutats of the early 80`s being A-442 they may have been tuning them to an average A of the day when it was made - which may have actually been lower than 440 and with this oboe being dried out from age - it shrank to make smaller openings & sharpening the pitch - unfortunately Rigoutat says they don`t have very detailed records from that era - which is why they came up with a ballpark 1945-1948 timeframe. So while it may not be like a modern A-440 oboe, it can have (tweaked) reeds that bring it into tune.

I find silk harder to tie with but! it is too easy to overtie with nylon string. But it is all up to the oboist and what you prefer.