Paypal is fast but is not 100% safe as they said, here is my story.

Very first time I know John Upchurch was from ebay (his Ebay ID is musitex03) in summer 2006. He was selling a used bassoon but did not successful, later I contacted him and we made the deal, I paid him with paypal, everything was fine although the bassoon has many problems he did not say prior. In the email communications, he told me he was the bassoon/contra player of Austin Symphony but retired early than others due to his heath problem, later I checked with Austin Symphony’s website, they was a one named John Upchurch. The wired things were: he was using his wife’s (Rhonda Upchurch) email and paypal account rlu44@sbcglobal.net and never gave me his phone number. The only way I could contact him was email.However, I did not think much about those because he could tell a lot about bassoon and I trusted paypal was 100% safe.

Early time in Nov 2007, he had an other bassoon available at Ebay and I emailed him and kindly offer him the purchase off ebay if nobady offer a acceptable price and could still pay via pyapal in order to reduce his cost at Ebay fees. Then he sent me the paypal invoice and I paid over thousand dollars to him from my paypal account. I feel lucky now since I did not put all eggs in one basket: I sent 80% of the payment from my credit card and rest from Paypal balance.

The fraud started from here. Two weeks after my payment made I still not received the bassoon, I sent couple emails finally got only one responsed said the bassoon had already sent on Nov 21. I waited for one more week, the bassoon never received and my further emails never got responded. I realize something must be wrong and filed Paypal dispute and claim immediately. After 10 days the claim filed, Paypal did not get any response from Upchurch’s and decided to recover the payment from his/her paypal and bank accounts. Unfortunately, Paypal told me Upchurchs have already transferred the money and closed his/her paypal accounts. Although this very rare happens because the seller will have to face the all possible punishments from pyapal, banks, credit card companies and even criminal laws but it dose happen. At this point, please remenber, paypal will do nothing with your money, it’s gone.

The only hope was my request of charge back to my credit card issuer, that’s available for most credit cards over 60 days after the payment made. Late Dec 2007, my credit card issuer informed me I will not need to pay the part from credit card for this undeceived merchandise. Still, I lost about $500 which from my paypal balance.

I'm sharing my paid experience with you here. First, always pay paypal with your credit card but paypal balance or your bank account. And, file dispute or claim immediately when you find anything dubiously.

Ryan

Really sorry to hear of your ebay/paypal experience. It does highlight the fact that there is always a risk involved with buying from a private seller over the internet,whether by ebay or otherwise. I was badly ripped off a couple of years ago using netinstrumentsales.com.I emailed them loads of times about it but got no reply.it was partly my own fault for being so trusting.
As regards John Upchurch,I've bought several bassoons and parts from him with no problems. They did take a long time to arrive though, 6 weeks in fact from US to UK.Are you sure that it's not still in the post?

John Upchurch neither replied my emails nor Paypal's official rquest of shipping information. He was lying, he never sent the bassoon to me. You can try to contact him now but I think he has disappeared. There is not more activities in his ebay account since middle Nov. Has he ever provided his phone number to you and you got conversation with him?

Thats funny... my bassoon teacher told me about a former student of his that nearly lost their B.H. Bell to fraud artists. Some people these days..

Everyone who were trapped in this kind of internet fraud, please post them out. Even we could not get money back but at least, it's good warning for more people keep away from these bad apples.

Paypal are doing many things against the rules they made. Either buyers or sellers hate them.

Can you not complain officially to paypal? They broke their own rules so they owe you that money. can't you email them or something complaining? maybe they can look into it again and sort it out.

We have completed our investigation of this case. We attempted to process a refund from the seller's account to your account. Unfortunately, the seller's account does not contain the funds necessary to cover this refund. We were able to recover $0.00 USD. We have taken action against the seller and are working to recover the remainder of your refund. We will contact you when we have more information. No further action is required of you at this time.

Non-receipt - Case ID: PP-376-950-xxx

Status: Case Closed


Transaction ID: 3C870564SR466882x


Seller Name & Email: Rhonda Upchurch, rlu44@sbcglobal.net



Transaction Date: Nov. 14, 2007

doesn't 'case closed' kinda imply that they're actually *not* working to recover the remainder of your refund?