Since I’ve really gotten in to playing trombone I’ve been developing different skills. I’ve recently got some new music for a performance that requires a fare amount of double tonguing. this is the first time I’ve needed double tonguing so I’ve never had to learned how. I know I’m going to need it more often now that I’m playing upper level music. I need help. if any of you has developed good double tonguing I would like to know what your technique was. thanks in advance for any help
piece

Alex Iles wrote a great article you should read about this very situation...
http://www.trombone.org/articles/library/viewarticles.asp?ArtID=227

thanks steve that helps a little.i agree that buzzing moving the slide and articulating in synk are important but i was looking for more detail specificly on double tonging. i don't have trouble playing fast music. i can single toung fast enough to play fast music with decent articulation. the section in our music sounds like this

thanks steve that helps a little.i agree that buzzing moving the slide and articulating in synk are important but i was looking for more detail specificly on double tonging. i don't have trouble playing fast music. i can single toung fast enough to play fast music with decent articulation. the section in our music sounds like this












well slower than that with a repeting rithym with the d's as the c sharps then back doun and reapeting..but do you see my problem it's not what you would see in every day music. i don't know the right technique. how do you do it? do you use ta-ka, doo-goo, du-gu....? btw whats the diference between triple and double tonguing. thanks

Double tonguing is simple, but hard (if that makes any sense). Simply put, tonguing in general is a muscle action. Double tonguing is taking that muscle action and adding another muscle action. We are all are used to using our tongues in a certain way on a brass instrument. Double tonguing basically adds another element.

When you double tongue, you use the front side of your tongue for the first half, and the back half for the second. We are not used to using that backside, so we have to work it out, just like a sprinter would work out his legs in a different way than a long distance runner would work out his.

So, you basically need to work out that backside, and then match it back and forth to the front side, or the normal tonguing we use. This takes a while….

The simplest exercise I use for my students is this. Play a repeated comfortable note (say, tuning concert Bb). Play it with the backside with a Kah tonguing. Do this repeatedly, till you are either comfortable or you get tired. (Eventually, you will get comfortable with it before you get tired, but in the beginning you will get tired first.) Start with quarter notes at about 60. Then go eighth. Then triplet eighth, then sixteenth, and on and on and on. Eventually (and this takes a while) you will be comfortable with that muscle action. Then you simply add the back and forth between that and the regular Tah tonguing, giving you Tah Kah Tah Kah, which is double tonguing.

Learning this does take a while, there isn’t really a method to teach you how to do it right this moment. Be patient, and eventually, you will master it.

Adding the slide movement creates a whole new element, which you will have to tackle after getting used to using that backside. There are several exercises to tackle this new problem, matching the slide, the double tonguing, and the air usage. Ben Van Dijk’s book, “Ben’s Basics”, has a few great exercises for this. My favorite is this:

Start with tuning Bb and A. Play them back and forth in 16th notes for 4 beats. Then, play Bb A Ab A Bb A Ab A Bb A Ab A Bb. Then add G. Then Gb, and on and on. Start slow, going for clarity over speed. Go all the way down to Bb A Ab G Gb F E F Gb G Ab A Bb. This exercise is great for perfecting double tonguing, as well as tonguing in general. It really works out the matching between air, tongue, and slide use.

More than anything be patient. Double tonguing is not something you will learn overnight, or even in a week. It takes time. I have been working on mine for years, and I still don’t consider it “perfect”.

I may be hearing your musical example wrong, but are you by any chance playing Four Scottish Dances by Malcolm Arnold?

i am. how did you know? have you played it?

btw thank you Erik for your relpy, it was very helpfull

Yes, I have played that piece before, and it can be a challenge if you're multiple tonguing isn't up to par. It's actually better to use a triple tonguing pattern, in my humble opinion. The key is to stay relaxed, focus on tone more than the articulation. The tendency is to try articulate too hard and cut off the air. The passage is very fast and requires your tongue to be very relaxed. One thing you can do is practice your tonguing pattern off of the horn. Keep the air flowing! Keep the tone. At this speed a softer articulation is generally preferable.
The multiple tonguing section of the Alessi/Bowman Arban is priceless. Unfortunately, this stuff doesn't get learned overnight. Do the best you can for now, but remember, don't wait until you need something in a piece to practice it. Same goes for things like tenor clef reading and other stuff too.

music is my passion and hopefully my currier. i have been teaching myself absolutely every thing i can for the past 4to 5 years. i've mastered reading bass treble tenor and alto clefs, i've learned all about cords (while playing piano for jazz bands),transposing and basics to most instruments, i'm taking and doing well in advanced placement music theory classes at school.....not to mention at least an hour every day practicing. i hardly ever see anything in my music (so far) that challenges me. i am proud to say that cause i have worked so hard and prepared for it. learning and mastering more is what drives me. but double tonguing has been my greatest challenge yet. i knew it would be. that’s why i never bothered to learn .i have been haunted by it for awhile and it has bugged the crap out of me. it is the only thing ive avoided even though i knew it was coming. but now that i've decided to learn i wont stop till i can do it.

Music is my passion as well. It is also my career.
And let me tell you, just when you think the world is out of challenges for you,they will come out of the woodworks and knock you upside your head .
I believe that in time, with more practical experience, you'll rethink your use of the word "mastered".
I play for a living, and make good money at it. I also still take regular lessons with two different teachers, practice between three and six hours a day on top of rehearsals at work and gigs. (Trust me man, in the competitive world, and hour a day of practice is just enough to keep you from getting worse!) And I still don't believe I have truly "mastered" much, because I believe there is always room for improvement.
Don't get me wrong, I'm glad you work hard. But at your age and level of playing, it's a dangerous attitude to feel you have "mastered" things. Don't label how good you are... just constantly work on getting better.. it's the best advice I ever got.

it was late last night when i wrote that. i didn't mean "mastered" but i don't have trouble reading in all clefs.
i said i practice at least an hour a day. most days it's allot more. i'm only a sophomore in high school; i have alot to learn but i have other focuses as well. i'm tiring to stay ahead of the game. i'm starting lesson at the end of the month. i'm really excited about it. i'll be sure to listen to absolutely every word my instructor says. i thank he will help me a lot .

i need that motivation again that I had....it was bascially the same thing. I think I was doing better then than I am now. But 8th grade hit and I lost all of it for odd reasons. Does anyone know how to get it back or what i can do...I'm trying to figure out ways, I'm doing it...but its not making me jump up and down like it used too...I figure that if I had more competition in my life that would help as well...But I only have 1 other to compete with and I have no one else...so does anyone have suggestions...I have a private tutor...just need motivation...

It's an all too common tale. We bury ourselves into things for a while and then start to lose interest. It's ok. There is no rule that says you have to do music intensely for life or make a career out of it. Other things come along to steal our attention away.
Your motivation will always fluctuate to an extent. It's normal. Music is a lot of work. It can be frustrating. Gains in skill are made little bits at a time. We hit plateaus. We get confused by all the different advice out there, get psyched out by all the horn makers telling you your horn isn't any good, and so on.
Practice your music because YOU want to get better... because YOU have a musical statement to make and you want the command of your horn to be able to make it. Don't just practice trombone playing, practice MUSIC!!! If you're not getting challenged at school, work up some other stuff. Get a quartet together. Join an outside group. Put on a recital. Ask to do a solo backed by the band. Whatever it takes... no excuses. Even the simplest of music can always be played better. Think about it.
But do it for the music. Not because anyone else says you should, not because I or anyone else "motivates" you. Music has to be the motivator. If it moves you to practice when you'd rather be out at the movies/with your girlfriend/sleeping late, or whatever... then great. Go practice. Get better. If it doesn't, it's not the end of the world. Do you really think the world will come crashing down if you don't play the trombone well? Do you really think we're at a shortage of talented bone players in the world? Of course not. If you don't do it, I promise you, someone else will.
I quit playing trombone for a long time. Now I play for a living. The second time around, I found my passion. If you need to take a break, take it. The horn and music will still be there for you when you come back.

i thank what motivated me the most was me listening to professional trombone players. i'll see performances on the internet or see one in person. or i sat down privately with my band director, and an old friend of the family and just listened. i looked and found some performances that inspired me. i saw some so moving to me that i remember there sound every time i pick up my horn. and i try to sound like that. i try to make music not to play notes. it might not work for you but i would suggest you look for and listen to some really good players. i thank the one that inspired me the most was Christian Lindberg. i've written before that he is my favorite and that’s why