I have a dilema and a few questions.

I cant decide between:

1.yamaha ysl-651
with bore .500 and bell 8in

or

2.yamaha ysl-641
with bore .551 and bell 8.5in

This are both old horns made between 1969-1975 and both in good condition.

My questions are:
1.How does the size of the bore and bell have impact on the sound and the way of playing?
2.Which would be a better choice from this 2 horns for a beginner?

Thank you for any advice or a coment.

Have you played either of these horns? I'm guessing you haven't?
If you are a beginner, I'd stick with the smaller bore horn. The large bore horns will take a lot more air and will be far more taxing on your chops. If you are just starting out, they are definitely not the way to go.

No i havent tried them yet. I just wondered what is the difference in the sound between them. Does this one with smaller bore has more treble and less bass then the other.
I will try them both before i buy of course but i dont know will i be able make any tone
The price is the same so that wont have any infuence.
Is it really that big difference in the way of playing? Do yo realy need so much more air for a bigger bore?
What do you think which of these two would go better with brass section one trumpet and an alto sax in a reggae music?

I think i will go with ysl-651, but i am just curious.

Thx for the answers.

yes, there is that much of a difference in the sound and how they play.
Small bore horns tend to give a more focused sound, and lend themselves to better high range playing.
Large bore horns will be more work to play, but the trade off is a generally broader and darker sound and the ability to play louder without the sound breaking up.
Keep in mind these are generalities, and players can accomplish wide ranges of tone color on either horn with enough experience.
But for a beginner, a large bore horn is just too much, in my humble opinion.
The misconception is that if it's a small horn, it's a beginner horn. Not true at all. There are professional levels of both. I own a small tenor and a large tenor, and I use them for different things. For me, it's about the sound and blend.

to add to what steve said,
The small bore, from the reason he stated, is why you normally find these horns in jazz band, and sometime even orchestras, where the range(mostly orchestra) is needed and a large bore is just way too much. For jazz, since it's more direct sound it blends better than a large bore would.

My advise from my own experience, start on a small bore, its much much more easier to build up a very strong basis, than go for a larger bore. But be careful, normally--from what i read in your post your looking at a .551 bore, are you sure its not a .547 bore? if it is bigger than the .547 it could be a bass trombone, which requires about twice the air as say a .547 bore...now i could stand corrected about that...but be careful on what you pick

I'd still advise you to get the small bore and build up your chops well enough. It could just end up deterring you from wanting to play trombone.

Thx for advice.

I will go then with ysl-651 then.

Ysl-641 has .551 bore. Here is a link if you are interested. There is no picture just spec.

http://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/CDA/ContentDetail/ModelSeriesDetail/0,,CNTID%25253D24411%252526CTID%25253D242800%252526LGFL%25253D%252526HST%25253DY,00.html

Yep the 641 has 0,551 bore, which surprised me too. It's an old horn, they dont make it anymore, neither do they make the 651. Both are discontinued models. The 641 was a copy of the Conn 8H.

What I'd suggest is try to see if you cant get a new YSL-354 which is a wonderful student model. I'm not sure about the 641 and 651, as they are quite old horns. They were professional models at the time, but I really dont know much about them. Unless they are really cheap, I don't see why you would pay more to get a professional instrument as you are just beginning to play.

So as I said, YSL-354 would be a great investment, or YSL-356/YSL-446G if you want an F-attachment(446 replaced 356 in 1998, they're pretty much the same). If the 651 is not too expensive, go for it I guess, but be sure to have it tried by someone who knows his stuff, or at least inspected by a technician.

Oh and what's your price range? and how much are the two horns you speak of?

Both of these trombones cost around 500 us dollars. The reason that i asked for advice just these 2 horns is that i didnt find any other used trombone. So nothing else works for me And the e-bay is not an option.

The 641 would definately not be a good choice, it's simply too big, bigger than most other tenors. Now make sure the 651 is in good shape, a horn this old, with such a low price, better be sure what you're buying (Measure twice, cut once). But maybe you should visit a few music stores and look for other used bones : choosing an option because it's the only you have isn't very good (when you buy anything, not just musical instruments). Try to have more options.

Also, what is your range of price, how much money are you ready to spend for your instrument?

There are no other used trombones. I have looked at every newspaper and on the internet. There are no shops with used brass instruments where i live. Sad, yes i know.
I have 550 dollars to spend, and thats it.
I will defenatly go for 651 and take someone from the music school to come along and try the horn to make shore that everything is ok.
Thanks for everything.